My 18 year old son, and all his mates, are busy buying their first Ā£3k motors (Ā£300 back in my day)!!. Will be interesting to see how EVs break into that market!! Buying EVs at the moment, is like buying your first PC in the early 90s.....they will soon be overpriced comical pieces of ****. However, we still need the test pilot clownsTrying to workout the daily EV facts and figures on here. I some serious overload of information.
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With the likes of the USA, China, Russia and India pumping Millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year. Do you think Mr Boring Bastaard driving his Teslar is going to help one jot. Give me my BMW X4 3.5 all drive every day.
So not only do you like old, polluting and overly complicated vehicles. You want them to be ugly too.With the likes of the USA, China, Russia and India pumping Millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year. Do you think Mr Boring Bastaard driving his Teslar is going to help one jot. Give me my BMW X4 3.5 all drive every day.
At least you admit you're not comparing like for like. The ID.3 is not only a newer car but it's a bigger car. It's just not in the same class as the polo. Try comparing like for like such as a Peugeot e208 9r a Renault zoe? Or a corsa eAndy - remember my stated primary concern is to be get from A to B, reliably and in a reasonable time at a economical cost. A brand new Polo does that for Ā£17k and will last at least 15 years. Possibly an electric VW id3 (which is second smallest VW and secondest cheapest electric VW) gives a driver some extras, but I am not interested in those extras for the Ā£13k extra cost, so to me the id3 and Polo Match are the same. If I used new petrol SEAT or Skoda it would be a bit cheaper than VW (same engines) but I would be accused of not comparing like with like. New Petrol VW group cars have lots of extras too btw. Agreed the price of new cars has increased in the last 8 years, my guess is by around 60% well above ordinary inflation.
I appreciate your and ST's information, but sorry no one has shown to me an electric car is cheaper for me despite its current special low tax treatment. I will look to switch when it is.
They look a lot better than the current offering of electric vehicles who are currently the elephant man of the motor world.So not only do you like old, polluting and overly complicated vehicles. You want them to be ugly too.
Silly post but I think you know that
That's such a ludicrous comment and you know it. You've seen the massive range of EV available yet you lump them all in the same category. And use an ugly, overstayed and top heavy crossover with a ridiculous grill and pointless congealed blotches on it as an example of what in ICE vehicle can look like.They look a lot better than the current offering of electric vehicles who are currently the elephant man of the motor world.
1: It's not the general consensus, or if it is the general consensus is wrong, largely as most people haven't owned an EV, are terrible at maths. or don't have a clue about TCO.That's the general consensus on both counts. I've done the maths and the cost of replacing my vehicle with a new EV are astronomical. And I believe my vehicle is actually better than any EV. I wouldn't get a used EV either as they are not tried and tested. Not that many vehicles stand the test of time. These EVs are a minefield with being reliant on expensive batteries and technology. They'll always end up going wrong, it's pretty much guaranteed.
You don't have to, nobody is forcing you to, but if you want to make comparisons, please try and keep the comparisons like for like.Still not buying it.
You're not really get a lot more back, you're spending a considerable amount of money each month. You probably can't really afford it, that's why you're doing it like that. Most people who pay for things monthly can't really afford them, that's why they pay monthly. My guess is if you had to pay 70k/80k/90k or whatever it is up front, you wouldn't play ball, it would be too much. So you trick your mind into thinking you can afford it. In essence, you create a liability for yourself to attain the items you want. You're not fooling me, kid - I've seen it all before.
The house to car thing doesn't make sense. They aren't connected for me. There's just no connection there. Homes are bought for all sorts of reasons and factors. Everyone needs a home and nearly everyone could do without a car. It's as simple as that. People buy cars mainly as status symbols, just look at the amount of SUVs on the road. They aren't needed. And my vehicle can do anything that a Ā£100k or Ā£250k vehicle can do, as for the purpose intended for UK roads.
I've given up on him now, I really CBA with his unalike "comparisons", or his assumptions of peoples budgets and how people should spend their money.This is the most ludicrous, entirely fact free FUD post I've seen so far. Everything yiu say is just ridiculous and based entirely on incorrect propaganda from makers of ICE vehicles trying to save their companies. Yiu should be embarrassed you've fallen for it enough to constantly repeat the lies. Despite someone patiently trying to educate you
Andy - remember my stated primary concern is to be get from A to B, reliably and in a reasonable time at a economical cost. A brand new Polo does that for Ā£17k and will last at least 15 years. Possibly an electric VW id3 (which is second smallest VW and secondest cheapest electric VW) gives a driver some extras, but I am not interested in those extras for the Ā£13k extra cost, so to me the id3 and Polo Match are the same. If I used new petrol SEAT or Skoda it would be a bit cheaper than VW (same engines) but I would be accused of not comparing like with like. New Petrol VW group cars have lots of extras too btw. Agreed the price of new cars has increased in the last 8 years, my guess is by around 60% well above ordinary inflation.
I appreciate your and ST's information, but sorry no one has shown to me an electric car is cheaper for me despite its current special low tax treatment. I will look to switch when it is.
Yeah itās clear heās just a lost cause. He tried to pretend to care with constant comparisons between a Dacia Sandero and lotus evija but that last post was just a pointless parroting of the known myths and mistruths that youāve so successfully busted on this thread.I've given up on him now, I really CBA with his unalike "comparisons", or his assumptions of peoples budgets and how people should spend their money.
Will take 5 years plus, to get into that price bracket.My 18 year old son, and all his mates, are busy buying their first Ā£3k motors (Ā£300 back in my day)!!. Will be interesting to see how EVs break into that market!! Buying EVs at the moment, is like buying your first PC in the early 90s.....they will soon be overpriced comical pieces of ****. However, we still need the test pilot clowns
Of course it isnāt fair to compare an old tech ice car to a brand new EV. Itās actually quite ludicrous. I know it, you know it, and I know you know it. You just know thatās the only way you can mount a financial defence of ICE. And we both know thatās what youāre doing. Shame you have to use a ridiculous and incorrect argument to do it.Look gents, I have no issues if someone wants an EV. They are not for me at the moment and I suspect they are not for a large % of people out there. There's all sorts of reasons why. The reason I've got involved in the debate is because I started a thread a few weeks ago stating that I'm not getting rid of my 2.5L Petrol. The thread was then jumped on by certain posters with a clear agenda of pushing EVs onto everybody else. A lot of the information these posters provide is clearly not accurate and is biased in favour of EVs. I'm not sure why they are so pro EV, but it's probably because they are tech obsessives who always want the latest gadget. I've seen many of those types come and go over the years. You see it with Apple products a lot but also just any sort of tech in general.
Discussing cars and value at the moment can be a sketchy thing as we're currently in a unique set of circumstances. There's a shortage of new cars which means used prices have risen dramatically and there's also long waiting lists and other crazy things going on. But one thing doesn't change, you need to know how much the vehicle is going to cost. Not how much you're going to pay per month - you need to know the purchase price - in total. You can then do a year by year estimate of running costs.
Whatever anyone says, buying a brand new car on PCP is just about always one of the most expensive ways to purchase a vehicle. It's a deal that favours the retailer - not the customer. That's why retailers like to negotiate a deal in terms of what you can afford per month, rather than the actual price of the vehicle. There's all sorts of tricks they play to get you to sign up to a monthly payment - this is an absolute fact. If you don't believe it, go and offer to pay cash up front and watch their faces drop. They want and need that monthly payment - that's where the profit is for them.
Back to EVs. It's very fair to compare new EVs to older used ICE examples as EVs are so expensive. A lot of these EVs look like traditional Ā£10-12k vehicles but cost Ā£35k and some. They are basic brands and they don't look that good. They cost a lot of money for what they are. In this case, new is certainly not better - used ICE is better. As long as you do your homework and buy well. There's so many problems with EVs and they might solve those problems in the next 10/20/30 years - who knows when? That's even if EVs are going to be dominant, they might well not be.
Yeah. Iād turn down saving a tonne of money just so I could have a car that goes ābrmmmmmmmāI live in a very small village in North Yorkshire. I'm a pensioner and do about 6000 miles a year. An EV car would be a perfect fit for me. The problem is they are too BORING.
No agenda from me, itās just basic maths, and experience of running a fleet of vehicles, as part of my business. Personally I own twice as many ICE cars, as EVās, not for long mind. Iāve owned about 20 ICE cars personally alone. As for the company, all our vans and HGVās are staying as ICE as that makes the most sense now, weāll be moving all cars to EV though, other than 4x4ās. Please explain my agenda?Look gents, I have no issues if someone wants an EV. They are not for me at the moment and I suspect they are not for a large % of people out there. There's all sorts of reasons why. The reason I've got involved in the debate is because I started a thread a few weeks ago stating that I'm not getting rid of my 2.5L Petrol. The thread was then jumped on by certain posters with a clear agenda of pushing EVs onto everybody else. A lot of the information these posters provide is clearly not accurate and is biased in favour of EVs. I'm not sure why they are so pro EV, but it's probably because they are tech obsessives who always want the latest gadget. I've seen many of those types come and go over the years. You see it with Apple products a lot but also just any sort of tech in general.
Discussing cars and value at the moment can be a sketchy thing as we're currently in a unique set of circumstances. There's a shortage of new cars which means used prices have risen dramatically and there's also long waiting lists and other crazy things going on. But one thing doesn't change, you need to know how much the vehicle is going to cost. Not how much you're going to pay per month - you need to know the purchase price - in total. You can then do a year by year estimate of running costs.
Whatever anyone says, buying a brand new car on PCP is just about always one of the most expensive ways to purchase a vehicle. It's a deal that favours the retailer - not the customer. That's why retailers like to negotiate a deal in terms of what you can afford per month, rather than the actual price of the vehicle. There's all sorts of tricks they play to get you to sign up to a monthly payment - this is an absolute fact. If you don't believe it, go and offer to pay cash up front and watch their faces drop. They want and need that monthly payment - that's where the profit is for them.
Back to EVs. It's very fair to compare new EVs to older used ICE examples as EVs are so expensive. A lot of these EVs look like traditional Ā£10-12k vehicles but cost Ā£35k and some. They are basic brands and they don't look that good. They cost a lot of money for what they are. In this case, new is certainly not better - used ICE is better. As long as you do your homework and buy well. There's so many problems with EVs and they might solve those problems in the next 10/20/30 years - who knows when? That's even if EVs are going to be dominant, they might well not be.