It wouldn't suprise me if the lack of testing was a cost decision. There will be minutes in the project file about this. Managers seem to understand the build cost, that can go way over budget, but they find it hard to reconcile that the testing costs about the same again, so cut corners.
Mr Bates vs The Post Office
- Thread starter 40FootRoad
- Start date
chickenrunner
Well-known member
Spec changes, cost constraints, corner cutting, lack of testing. The fact that Horizon was not fit for purpose is accepted and now something of a moot point, the game has moved on.
People from Fujitsu told lies, in some cases in a court of law. Those lies cost people their livelihoods, their liberty and in some cases their lives.
There is some consideration that the behaviour of POL and Fujitsu constituted a criminal conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, it's difficult to come to any other conclusion. Charges should follow.
It's self evident that Horizon wasn't tested properly, otherwise the whole issue wouldn't have happened. More likely it was time pressure rather than cost pressure to release it before it was robust.
It's possible that Horizon was so big and complex that nobody was able to determine whether it worked properly or not, at least until real world operation showed it was buggy. At least some of the system managers might have been correct in saying their bit worked correctly. Clearly not all of them.
What's hard to understand is why the Post Office, and then Fujitsu didn't see the pattern of sub postmasters racking up losses and do something about it. Continuing to prosecute people when there were system issues is a bizarre decision. Every day that passed increased the reputational damage to the Post Office and Fujitsu exponentially.
Why hasn't the Post Office given all the known people affected an interim payment pending the result of the enquiry? At least that would have saved a bit of PR face for the Post Office. Right now the PO looks like a monster.
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
You are completely right, the IT being problematic is one thing and can happen anywhere, but the subsequent actions of the Post Office hierarchy and management was quite appalling.
MickaelDebevePhenomenal
Well-known member
What gets me, as someone who worked in financial services for a bank for 10+ years, if ever any shortfall was ever posted by a branch or by an individual, to the level the way the post office drama alludes to, there would have been Auditors/I.T experts/forensic accountants going through every single keystroke of a computer, every suspense account reconciled and personal accounts audited to the Nth degree.
Its unfathomable how the post office were allowed to be judge, jury and executioner without any form of auditing process.
Its unfathomable how the post office were allowed to be judge, jury and executioner without any form of auditing process.
BoroMart
Well-known member
Testing is always the first cost cutting exercise in over running projects. I wouldn't be entirely confident about minutes being collated either.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
When was Horizon implemented? around 1999?
12 months of use by 100,000 Post Offices should have covered testing.
From what I gather they were still prosecuting 15 years later.
As said in the drama the Post Office and Fujistu were complete idiots or fraudsters - I tend to think it was more of the latter, but the P/O initially could have acted very naively believing everything Fujistu told them.
Watching the drama you get the impression the PO did not trust their sub post office masters at all, for anything.
12 months of use by 100,000 Post Offices should have covered testing.
From what I gather they were still prosecuting 15 years later.
As said in the drama the Post Office and Fujistu were complete idiots or fraudsters - I tend to think it was more of the latter, but the P/O initially could have acted very naively believing everything Fujistu told them.
Watching the drama you get the impression the PO did not trust their sub post office masters at all, for anything.
One thing that really disgusted me was when it was revealed that in at least one case for sure (and one has to suppose, probably all of them since it seems none of these people stole any money), despite the Post Office investigators finding no evidence of actual theft, they still used the threat of a theft prosecution to pressure people into pleading guilty to false accounting by promising them they would be able to avoid jail time.
That was also a totally disingenuous promise at best and an outright lie at worst, since as several of the subpostmasters found out, judges could (and did) still sentence them to jail.
That was also a totally disingenuous promise at best and an outright lie at worst, since as several of the subpostmasters found out, judges could (and did) still sentence them to jail.
Will_Graham
Well-known member
Brilliant TV but it has made me so angry.
I can't believe I knew so little about it until recently.
I want to get involved. Obviously I can't, but that's how I feel.
I can't believe I knew so little about it until recently.
I want to get involved. Obviously I can't, but that's how I feel.
Archiestephens_elbow
Well-known member
Tory britain
And Labour, I'm afraid. (Lib dems too, in coalition)
Littlejimmy
Well-known member
Same. What these people went through is unimaginable. The Post Office and Fujitsu have blood on their hands, yet nobody has been held to account. Instead the likes of Vennels get and keep their honours.
The_Lizards_Jumpers
Well-known member
THIS government , hold a corporate entity to account, one where lots of their mates will have money invested- probably deport all the sub post masters to Rwanda or something.
https://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/special_reports/justice-lost-in-the-post.pdf
worth reading for more details
worth reading for more details
Zoophonic
Well-known member
its what they do. They see an opportunity and jump on the populous bandwagon. (note Zahawi getting involved). Smoke and mirrors stuff just to look good.
chickenrunner
Well-known member
The blog below covers the current Horizon IT inquiry.
