Wow. Latest Hartlepool polling...

By all means disagree, but tell me why?
I'd rather not mate because I keep telling myself to stay away from politics threads on here because I don't want to fall out with people and these debates just go round and round in circles and end up being a complete waste of everyone's time. I have my views. You have yours. Can we just leave it at that?
 
I'd rather not mate because I keep telling myself to stay away from politics threads on here because I don't want to fall out with people and these debates just go round and round in circles and end up being a complete waste of everyone's time. I have my views. You have yours. Can we just leave it at that?

Of course.

But for me to change my mind, to be persuaded I am wrong or have failed to take something in to account, that requires listening. I can’t listen if you don’t speak.
 
So anyone who has different views to you is 'thick' ?
Pathetic post 👎

No.
He‘s not simply saying that anybody with a different view to him is thick, as well you know.

That is a very common and standard attack line typically trotted out by Tories all the time to try and further alienate the disillusioned and ill informed voter from Labour.
Sadly, it seems to work, even though the reality is that it isn’t saying anybody simply with an opposite view is thick.

What it is saying is that anybody who voted Tory today, to endorse and reward a party who have displayed such brazen corruption over the past 12 months or so, who have a leader who has repeatedly lied and broken the ministerial code, who have presided over tens of thousnds of completely unnecessary deaths, who have stolen money from the public purse to line the pockets of their rich friends and donors, who have displayed almost comical levels of incompetence in office, who have control of the majority of the media and who are systematically placing their people in positions of power to gain further control, ( such as at the BBC ),who openly lie to the public time after time after time without recourse, so much so that they can just laugh about it behind closed doors, Is not voting in their own best interests. Some interpret that to be thick.

Anybody who votes for a party that is taking money from them on the sly and making their life more difficult, reducing the opportunities for their children and increasing the levels of working people who are now classed as ‘living in poverty‘ and reliant on food banks, is not voting in their own best interests. Some interpret that to be thick.
Anybody who supports and relies on the NHS but votes Tory, is not voting in their own best interests. Some interpret that to be thick.
Anybody who votes for a party that are undermining democracy in this country on a weekly basis, is themself complicit in it, and is not voting in their own best interests. Some interpret that to be thick.

I personally don’t think such people are thick, but I do think they have been manipulated and don’t realise just how much they play the role of sacrificial pawns in the rich man’s game.
I do think they are ill-informed and don’t get their view of the political parties and what they truly represent, from a wide enough spectrum of information. Not everybody has the time to scour media and to follow academics and political commentators and to understand what is really happening though, so it’s understandable that the rich Tory represented owners of the Mail, Express and Sun are able to so easily manipulate the average person.
I do think they are politically naive but the whole system is designed to ensure that.

Keep a population dumbed down and you can feed them any old ***** and get them to do whatever you want. You can also create division and weaken them. That’s exactly what the Tories want. To keep you and me dumb, naive, ill-informed and distracted enough to make it easy for them to manipulate and con us into doing their bidding for them, ensuring them and the rich get richer and we get poorer while working harder.

I think anybody who voted for the Tory candidate in Hartlepool today should do one of two things - go and educate themselves about what the party they voted for really represents and thinks of them OR hang their head in shame for rewarding the corruption, sleaze, theft, rule breaking, incompetence and the undermining of democracy of this current government.
 
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There are three reasons for voting Brexit that I have come across
1. Disaster capitalists expecting to make/retain money as a consequence
2. Hatred of foreigners
3. Sold a lie that things will return to “the good old days of the 1960s“. And if it doesn’t , and it won’t, at least it would have p1ssed off lots of others too.

Don't think I have missed anything
First don't accept your number 1 (Teesside was a major Brexit area how many disitor capitalists live on Teesside? -

1. Anti - establishment vote, comig from a feeling of being left behind.
2. UK Regional levelling up hope
3. Dislike of how the EU is run as an organisation
4. Protection of UK fisheries
5. Stop the UK susbsidising the EU
6. Stop UK losing its own sovereignity to EU law
7. Stop the UK of eventually getting rid of its own currency
8. Ability to negotiate trade deals for suited the UK
 
First don't accept your number 1 (Teesside was a major Brexit area how many disitor capitalists live on Teesside? -

1. Anti - establishment vote, comig from a feeling of being left behind.
2. UK Regional levelling up hope
3. Dislike of how the EU is run as an organisation
4. Protection of UK fisheries
5. Stop the UK susbsidising the EU
6. Stop UK losing its own sovereignity to EU law
7. Stop the UK of eventually getting rid of its own currency
8. Ability to negotiate trade deals for suited the UK

immigration doesn’t appear anywhere on your list?

Is that your list of actual reasons for leaving the EU, or just your list of things people believed to persuade them to vote Leave.
 
1. Anti - establishment vote, comig from a feeling of being left behind.
1. Makes some logical sense in terms of why you might think that's a possibility long term, but it doesn't explain siding with people who (a) are as establishment as it gets, and (b) are actively working to increase the distance between the haves and have nots.

2. UK Regional levelling up hope
EU subsidies did far more for the regions than UK govt (especially Tories) did. Just look around locally and at places like Cornwall.

3. Dislike of how the EU is run as an organisation
How is the EU run? Referendum Day + 1 saw huge amounts of people googling "What is the EU" - hardly smacks of people understanding the process.

4. Protection of UK fisheries
That's going well...

5. Stop the UK susbsidising the EU
As with #3, people had no idea of how EU payments worked and what their value to the UK was. I read the other day that we're now spending more (~£400M per week) on borders than we spent on the EU (~£350M per week, as per the big red bus).

6. Stop UK losing its own sovereignity to EU law
We always had our sovereignty (how could we leave, otherwise). We also had a veto on any attempt to change/remove that. We were also instrumental in formulating most of the EU laws & rule changes - which is why we usually signed up to them with little fuss - they were our ideas.

7. Stop the UK of eventually getting rid of its own currency
As with #6 this was never a possibility (unless it came from UK policy).

8. Ability to negotiate trade deals for suited the UK
As with #6, they usually did. At least more so than they suited smaller members of the bloc where there was any conflict. We held a huge amount of power in the EU and had far more concessions than anyone else.

All this list shows is that people clearly had no clue about what they were voting for (or against).
 
He has conned his way in but what’s the way out?
Thats a good question(y)
You may recall the same euphoria over a certain Mrs Thatcher - who "swept" to No 10 and was deemed invincible - "media management" [marketing] by Bernard Ingham ensured the willing media lapped up the carefully manufactured propaganda. In her own party there was huge division and she was dumped out of power. That is the nature of politics.
Its a good discussion point and Im sure it will continue as the corruption and "favours" continues.

btw: which "Holgate Corner" did you stand in?
I was one of the noisy crowd two crash barriers up right behind the goal(y)
 
Oh dear. This is the problem though. After everything that has happened in the last 12 months, let alone the last 12 years, the Tories are still wiping the floor with Labour. In a seat that has always been a Labour stronghold it’s incredible that this has happened. I know it was predicted but until Labour, or some other party, offer a real alternative then not much will change.
 
Thats a good question(y)
You may recall the same euphoria over a certain Mrs Thatcher - who "swept" to No 10 and was deemed invincible - "media management" [marketing] by Bernard Ingham ensured the willing media lapped up the carefully manufactured propaganda. In her own party there was huge division and she was dumped out of power. That is the nature of politics.
Its a good discussion point and Im sure it will continue as the corruption and "favours" continues.

btw: which "Holgate Corner" did you stand in?
I was one of the noisy crowd two crash barriers up right behind the goal(y)
👍 I do remember the Thatcher era very well and agree we are in similar times, a struggling working class and a cleverly orchestrated feeling that the Tories were in forever and elections were a foregone conclusion. However, I do think Thatcher, although deeply flawed, was an honest politician who believed in what she was doing whereas Johnson is the biggest self serving opportunist con man you could ever see in power.

I went in the Corner of the Holgate you got into through the back alley turnstiles, next to the North Stand. I used to go with my dad, and he was too old to go down the middle of the Holgate and couldn’t afford to take us in the seats. It was ok where we used to stand but there were a few big games in the cup with full houses when I felt I was missing out by not being down the middle of the Holgate. It was no problem though, he was a massive Boro fan who I went to the match with right up until his end in 2012, I owe all my football and political allegiances to him. He was a shop steward and union representative and used to canvas for the Labour Party during the election campaigns of the 70’s and 80’s. He hated Thatcher and would have hated Johnson even more - it’s actually quite a good thing he never saw this bunch of criminals in power.
 
A huge swing, sadly wasn't even close. :(

Even with the lower turnout 15% lower, the Tories got more votes than they did at the General Election, the Brexit Party splitting the vote wasn't a factor this time.

Daft choice of candidate, you could spot the issue a mile off, but even without that I think it was always going to be tough for Labour with the pandemic throwing up unique circumstances and a rally around the flag factor.
 
So anyone who has different views to you is 'thick' ?
Pathetic post 👎
Hi Nobby
Great name 👍
Look, it’s the truth, Johnson is the uk trump.
He’s an idiot and anyone hoodwinked into voting for him falls into the same category
Maybe an uncomfortable truth but still a truth.
 
Hi Nobby
Great name 👍
Look, it’s the truth, Johnson is the uk trump.
He’s an idiot and anyone hoodwinked into voting for him falls into the same category
Maybe an uncomfortable truth but still a truth.
I wasn't bothered who won the election, I'm not really interested in politics that much. But your simplistic assumption that anyone who voted Tory in Hartlepool (that's over 50% of those who voted) is thick, really isn't the truth...it's just sour grapes !
 
Absolutely 👌
I second that

The more they treat the electorate with contempt the worse it gets for them and their supporters. And still they don't see it.
They need to CTRL-ALT-DEL the whole Labour party - how about new Labour.

Need to do a manifesto , but remove the word manifesto.
Some kind of PhD thesis by some of the brightest and best in the Labour party to put forward a visionary road map. I fear its a very tall order
 
If Hartlepool are vote in a Tory then it’s just a confirmation for me of how thick the electorate are in England
You just don't get it do you ?
Just a confirmation for me of the sanctimonious thinking of those on the left.

Maybe if you thought along the lines of how can an opposition party be doing so badly when up against a buffoon like PM and a party full of sleaze.

A ruling government party actually improving their share of the vote and winning by-elections with improved numbers is unheard of in modern times or even ancient times.

Something is broken isn't it ?
 
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