Where is Gibson

BobendBert said:
This is moving away from constant rebuilds? This is more stable?

He lurches from one disaster to the next. He puts the money in so he can make whatever decisions he likes. But I have a season ticket and have supported this team for 60 years. I’ll call a spade a spade and say his decisions have been consistently woeful and he’s dragged this club down over the last few years on the pitch, whilst propping it up off the pitch. He deserves credit for the latter and absolutely pelters for the former.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the philosophy around the new model is to bring in managers of a certain type, who set up a team to play in a specific way that suits the players already here. Thus, no need for expensive rebuilds every other season.
I'm genuinely open to be educated otherwise if there is something I have misunderstood here, but that has got to be a more sustainable model?
Congrats on the 60 years of support, but that doesn't validate your argument more than anybody else's. We're all fans and just want the best for our club.

You say he's dragged the team down whilst also propping the club up. That suggests to me that the lack of success on the pitch surely sits with a first team coach / manager under performing, and not the chairman. Bailing the club out when his manager has let him down.
And before you go down the route of "he's made terrible appointments so it's ultimately his fault anyway"....I just don't buy into that at all. Woodgate aside (yes, that appointment should never have happened) there was never anything to suggest those appointments wouldn't be successful at the time.
 
I could never criticise Steve Gibson for anything and make no apologies for that. I can appreciate the concerns of the fans as we are passionate about our club. I think of three things when I think of his tenure of this club:

1 - His investment and leadership has allowed me to watch the team play 10 seasons in the Premier League with a wonderful stadium and success many other teams can only dream of. Memories that will last for ever and cannot be erased. Much of this success was personally funded by Steve from his own pocket through dark times. Other chairmen would have walked away as that was the easier thing to do.

2 - Cup finals, including one in Europe, a cup winning side also. How many clubs with a town the size of ours can boast this?

3 - Take a look at the 'big' clubs currently in League 1. Many much larger in size and population than Middlesbrough. I am sure their fans envy what we have and do not take this for granted. We are not entitled to success. It has to be earned. We do not have a God given right to be at the top all of the time. From my many years of watching football I appreciate it is cyclical. Times change and teams go through dark times, sometimes dropping to the very bottom, but they also improve and move back up. Look at Man City, Wolves, Bournemouth, etal.

Be careful what you wish for.
 
BigAl76 said:
I'm pretty sure the philosophy around the new model is to bring in managers of a certain type, who set up a team to play in a specific way that suits the players already here. Thus, no need for expensive rebuilds every other season.
I'm genuinely open to be educated otherwise if there is something I have misunderstood here, but that has got to be a more sustainable model?
Congrats on the 60 years of support, but that doesn't validate your argument more than anybody else's. We're all fans and just want the best for our club.

You say he's dragged the team down whilst also propping the club up. That suggests to me that the lack of success on the pitch surely sits with a first team coach / manager under performing, and not the chairman. Bailing the club out when his manager has let him down.
And before you go down the route of "he's made terrible appointments so it's ultimately his fault anyway"....I just don't buy into that at all. Woodgate aside (yes, that appointment should never have happened) there was never anything to suggest those appointments wouldn't be successful at the time.
Click to expand...

That might be the intent but the decisions he’s made have undermined it.

We’ve had 5 managers in 5 years. Where is the consistency between any of them in approach?

I’m less willing to give him a free pass in the managerial appointments of Monk, Pulis, Warnock and Woodgate. Each was dreadful.

We’ve had a recruitment department supplying crap players season upon season spending millions in the process.

All his decisions. He is to blame.
 
Does owning boro benefit his other business interests? At the end of the day hes a business man there must be other reasons as to why he does. Or is it hes simply a fan?
 
BigAl76 said:
He does his talking with his continuous investment into his club. We're talking millions every season here by the way.
Click to expand...
He doesn't invest Al, he really doesn't.
BigAl76 said:
But surely investing hand over fist isn't sustainable, not to mention ffp.
Click to expand...
The club is FFP safe without him injecting the equity he could have done. He has injected £8m since 2014. An owner can invest £8m per season, much more in the PL.
He knows how to play the rules...and the fans.
Bristol City owner injected over £26m in 2021 alone, and £98m in total since 2018, although obviously not all counts in FFP calculation.
They have positive shareholder value, just £39m total debt of which just £17m is to the owner/Group.
Of course there are owners who won't cover losses with loans, but there are alternatives.
The key is not making serial mistakes.
 
TheWolfman said:
Does owning boro benefit his other business interests? At the end of the day hes a business man there must be other reasons as to why he does. Or is it hes simply a fan?
Click to expand...
No I can't see it does benefit him, but he can offset club losses against bigger profit from the Group for tax efficiencies and in fairness does seem to let that flow, but I am not a tax professional.
But overall, if MFC lose a shedload of money there is no nett upside for him or Mike O'Neill that I can see, it is still real money lost, offset by Bulkhaul.
 
indeedido said:
Bristol City owner injected over £26m in 2021 alone, and £98m in total since 2018, although obviously not all counts in FFP calculation.
They have positive shareholder value, just £39m total debt of which just £17m is to the owner/Group.
Click to expand...

Who cares? They're 2 points ahead of us and this is our worst start to a champo season ever. What difference do the fees actually make to you? Would you be happier if we'd paid £10m for Mowatt and £20m for Giles and the dosh had all come from Gibson? What's the difference?
 
indeedido said:
You are exactly what insulates him.
It is absolutely down to Gibson. Not today's performance in particular, but a 16 year collapse on and off the pitch.
He isn't investing, he is offsetting massively increasing debt caused by the ramifications of his decisions every year.

The owners of Brentford, Fulham, Aston Villa, Everton, Bristol City have injected equity and invested. It doesn't in itself guarantee success, but our financing by horrendous debt has also brought us a club that does nothing but go backwards and which can only be run by Gibson to who the debt is owed.

Stop feeling sorry for the man who has taken us here and who now runs the risk of actually losing the money people like you think he has actually already invested.
Click to expand...
Is this the emperors new clothes season ?
 
SuperStu said:
Who cares? They're 2 points ahead of us and this is our worst start to a champo season ever. What difference do the fees actually make to you? Would you be happier if we'd paid £10m for Mowatt and £20m for Giles and the dosh had all come from Gibson? What's the difference?
Click to expand...
The point I made was people think Gibson has invested loads recently, he hasnt.
The Bristol ownership have and their financial position is incredibly stronger than ours as a result.
I’d be devastated had we spent £10m on Mowatt wherever the money came from. Not sure what your point is there fella.
 
My point is the clubs finances are more or less irrelevant. We've had expensive flops and bargain star players. I just don't see much sense in bemoaning that we spent £10m odd in the summer and wouldn't it have been brill if we'd spent £20m. 🤷‍♂️
 
So if Bristol City’s financial position is far stronger than ours why overall are they not a more successful team?

Or do the spend the money on the Rugby team?

Do Bristol City have a larger football budget than Middlesbrough?
 
SuperStu said:
My point is the clubs finances are more or less irrelevant. We've had expensive flops and bargain star players. I just don't see much sense in bemoaning that we spent £10m odd in the summer and wouldn't it have been brill if we'd spent £20m. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
The whole point is spending well.
The more investment there has been, the better the financial position, the better the ability to spend.
Spend that well and we progress from a football perspective and strengthen financially.
Spending based on debt can not just spiral and when the spending is bad you go backwards as we have broadly for 16 years.
 
Since1973 said:
Do Bristol City have a larger football budget than Middlesbrough?
Click to expand...
Their wage bill was higher in the year to 2021 that is for sure.
Not the point anyway. The point is they are financially secure, are a genuine going concern with positive book value, because their owner has invested, not just loaned money, and kept debt under control.
 
indeedido said:
The whole point is spending well.
The more investment there has been, the better the financial position, the better the ability to spend.
Spend that well and we progress from a football perspective and strengthen financially.
Spending based on debt can not just spiral and when the spending is bad you go backwards as we have broadly for 16 years.
Click to expand...
You're tying your self in knots here mate. There's no rule about what makes a good owner or a good team.

As above we have wasted money and had bargains. At this moment in time its not great I'm sure we all agree on.
 
BigAl76 said:
Imagine spending your money on season tickets year in and year out, money at the club shop, few beers in the ground maybe and some food. Not to mention the time away from your family on match days and transport to the ground.
You celebrate the goals, and the wins absolutely make your Saturday night. High on the good vibes that your beloved Boro are doing the business.

And then we get beat and everything isn't so rosy any more. You argue with friends about team selection and tactics. Go home, get annoyed with the kids and kick the dog. Saturday night ruined

Im not so naive to think Gibson hasn't made a single mistake over the years, but the way some people speak with vitriol about him and want him out of the club genuinely astonishes me. A medium to big sized English club owned by a local fan is a very rare commodity in this country. And there is a reason he is respected and revered by so many within the game. People that have a far better understanding of the nuances of club ownership than I certainly do.
Click to expand...
BigAl76 said:
For example, I'd take Gibson and the current status of our club over what has happened up the road with the skunks any day of the week.
Click to expand...

Yeah , local owners are something to be proud of (cough cough Mel Morris )

Im sure the geordies are gutted they’ve got owners who will win them countless cups and bring some of the biggest stars in world football to them . Im sure they hark back for the days Freddy shepherd owned them
 
indeedido said:
I'm really not.
When I say more investment I mean in the club through equity injection, not as in buying players.
I think you are getting confused by terminology.
Click to expand...
I meant by the Bristol comparison. I agree he needs to invest better and get help.
 
BobendBert said:
That might be the intent but the decisions he’s made have undermined it.

We’ve had 5 managers in 5 years. Where is the consistency between any of them in approach?

I’m less willing to give him a free pass in the managerial appointments of Monk, Pulis, Warnock and Woodgate. Each was dreadful.

We’ve had a recruitment department supplying crap players season upon season spending millions in the process.

All his decisions. He is to blame.
Click to expand...

Boroboyyo said:
Yeah , local owners are something to be proud of (cough cough Mel Morris )

Im sure the geordies are gutted they’ve got owners who will win them countless cups and bring some of the biggest stars in world football to them . Im sure they hark back for the days Freddy shepherd owned them
Click to expand...
Let's not forget the barcodes have zero class and the moral compass of an octopus. We're better than that.
I'd be ashamed of mfc if Gibson sold out to state owned Saudi backers and all the political and human rights issues that goes with that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top