Who do you think might want to 'take his place'?
Where is Gibson
- Thread starter Jedi boro
- Start date
BTW who said this about Gibson THIS YEAR?
"Gibson transformed the club with energy, drive, ambition and pride from taking over as Chairman in 93. He brought us top flight football, international players, a new stadium, training facilities, our first trophy and two consecutive seasons in Europe.
What he did post relegation in 2009 was even more significant as he literally paid for the seismic holes in our finance.
My criticism - which still stands - is not for his commitment, but the key decisions he made from 2016-2020 where I think he horribly got things wrong. Prem budget and spending, Agnew, Monk, pulis, Woodgate
As I have repeatedly said, without him guaranteeing the debt his decisions in part drove, we would be done.
Since 2020 he has got the big calls absolutely spot on IMHO.
He is the most significant figure in the history of our club."
"Gibson transformed the club with energy, drive, ambition and pride from taking over as Chairman in 93. He brought us top flight football, international players, a new stadium, training facilities, our first trophy and two consecutive seasons in Europe.
What he did post relegation in 2009 was even more significant as he literally paid for the seismic holes in our finance.
My criticism - which still stands - is not for his commitment, but the key decisions he made from 2016-2020 where I think he horribly got things wrong. Prem budget and spending, Agnew, Monk, pulis, Woodgate
As I have repeatedly said, without him guaranteeing the debt his decisions in part drove, we would be done.
Since 2020 he has got the big calls absolutely spot on IMHO.
He is the most significant figure in the history of our club."
indeedido
Well-known member
No they don't. Both of those clubs offered more potential than Boro do. They are bigger places and have higher profile.
We won't ever attract sovereign wealth who have ethical baggage. Many would not want it anyway.
We could attract another owner however, that would actually crucially invest, not just leverage debt ever more, especially when we have such low asset value and negative nett value.
In order to get that new owner, Gibson would have to write off the debt he has created.
It is a double edged sword in that without Gibson's Group under-writing the losses he's made, the club would go into administration. So surely our saviour?
But without that debt, the club would attract a new owner willing to invest. So clearly our suppressor?
He enjoys massive credit for offsetting the debt, because of the recognition of his drive and ambition 93-06.
But many are waking up to the fact that his credit is not limitless (unlike Stoke with Bet365) and the emotional credit he has is draining steadily after 16 years of serious decline, on and off the pitch.
Not my words, maybe indeedido can answer that?
r00fie1
Well-known member
WoodallServices
Well-known member
How many fcuking times do we have to go through this sh1t?
There are no billionaires queuing up to buy Middlesbrough Football Club. I’m sure Steve Gibson sits there after some matches, especially if he browses any Boro forums and thinks “I could probably be a billionaire myself if I hadn’t spend decades and hundreds of millions of pounds keeping this club afloat for this ungrateful shower”!!
He’s too busy running a successful transport business and a football club to be giving us a blow by blow account of everything that’s going on because we’re spending far more time than we should on social media and news channels waiting for info. Get a grip!!
This. ^
It's pathetic. A run of bad results and a manager that didn't work out and It's all Gibson's fault for throwing £100 millions at it.
indeedido
Well-known member
I stand by everything I posted and have done in my subsequent criticism of him.
I am very balanced in my remarks about Gibson.
93-06 he was a hero. I have repeatedly posted so.
12-14 he converted £55m debt to equity, having first internalised the debt within his Group post the Financial Crash. It saved the club. I have repeatedly said so and given him credit.
14-16 he took on help from Kenyon, hired Karanka and had success which felt good for the first time in a decade.
16-20 he ditched Kenyon, went it alone and spectacularly failed (woeful investment, disastrous transfer dealings, sacked Karanka, kept Agnew, hired Monk, spent bizarrely, hired pulis, sold badly, bought awfully, kept pulis too long, wasted the PP's, hired Woodgate)
In 20 he hired Warnock which saved him from League 1 and steadied the ship, getting rid of the dead wood. Hired Wilder.
At the time of writing that post earlier this year, Gibson had got the big calls since 2020 absolutely spot on.
Since writing that post, that was balanced and dripping in goodwill to Gibson, he has had an opportunity to build this summer, with the help of a £22.5m transfer profit that would help bridge the gap to PP teams and give us a chance.
Everything Gibson has done however has returned to the form of 2016-20. No investment into the club, awful transfer activity and two horrendous windows sucking the life out of a promising revival.
Again in recent months I have emphasised that I was optimistic that Gibson would grasp this opportunity in May - his best since 2016. But he hasn't. He has spectacularly bungled yet again.
He bungled in 2006-14 and again 2016-20.
They are sadly not blips, they are his type and he has reverted to type since that selective quote.
So thanks for putting the post up as it shows I give massive credit when and where it is due.
But it is entirely consistent with what I have been posting on this board.
Whatever happens, Gibson is "the most significant figure in the history of our club". That is a truism.
It doesn't make him without criticism, or guarantee he should be the most celebrated.
He is without doubt the problem at our club. The debt is to him and is what prevents us moving on.
As I have repeatedly said he won't write it off, so we are stuck with each other.
Nosmo-King
Well-known member
I think you’ll find there is a school of thought it is his partner O Neil who is the brain of his business operation.
Some issue it out as a badge of pride millions has been pumped into the club. Point one it’s not his personal money and point 2 if he had been a lot more shrewd and capable of writing a viable business plan I doubt we would have been in the brown stuff to the degree we are.
indeedido
Well-known member
He hasn't spent hundreds of millions of his pounds keeping the club afloat.
He has spent £64m by converting debt to equity (last £8m in 2016) and his Group has offset £120m of losses he has presided over on its Group Balance Sheet. It is a loan due within a year, which he rolls on and promises not to call in that year. That is what keeps us afloat.
He leaves us in the 5th worst financial position in British football.
His dictatorship loses money every season. Those losses have created a debt that only his Group can support, because the asset base is so low that we have minus £117m of nett value; which means we couldn't raise external finance if we wanted to or could afford to service it.
Yes we need his Group to guarantee the debt, but he is the one who keeps increasing it and refusing to invest equity/convert that debt.
Only 4 other clubs have what we have, but worse. They are:
Brighton -£238.7m nett shareholder value. All of the debt to owner Bloom who is a billionaire.
Stoke -£194.7m nsv. All of the debt to Coates family, billionaires of Bet 365.
West Ham -£165.0m nsv. Most debt to billionaire owners, but £55m Bank Loans too. Very low Tangible asset value.
Cardiff -£141.8m nsv. Lots of debt to owner, but additional high debt on high interest beyond owner.
Next is us -£116.6m as at 2021, with £120m debt to owner (of total £178.6m liabilities) and very low Fixed asset value £58.9m (recently inflated by a revaluation to assist FFP calculations).
I am not making this up, it is all in the public domain at Companies House.
Blackburn is also sh!tty -£111m, Birmingham not clever at -£81m and Reading poor at -£72m.
Nobody else in the Championship is remotely in our state.
Only Bournemouth and Palace in the PL have difficult negative values, but are on PL revenues and nowhere near our position.
There is nobody queueing up to take the club on as it is and pay Gibson for his mis-management.
But if he had actually poured the money in that people like you think he has, then other investors would take on the club, because it wouldn't have the debt, it would have greater equity and the lower debt it had would have would then be covered by asset value.
indeedido
Well-known member
I presume I have answered you Roofie. I hope so.
The problem is that people want to either be all one thing, or all another.
Gibson was fantastic 93-06.
He was genuine financial saviour 12-16 with equity injection.
He has been football disaster 06-22, with exception of a 14-16 with Karanka.
20-21 he made decisions to keep us out of League 1 and create an opportunity to go again.
2022 he has messed that opportunity up quite spectacularly.
Overall I want new chapters under different ownership.
It does not stop me recognising the brilliant impact Gibson had in his early chapters and saying so.
It doesn't stop me being grateful for him finally converting some debt to equity in 2012-2016 and keeping us going.
Nor does it stop me being encouraged by things that look like positive change, like Karanka or clearing the decks through 2021-22.
But they don't stop me arriving at my position. He is the problem, not our hope.
The problem is that people want to either be all one thing, or all another.
Gibson was fantastic 93-06.
He was genuine financial saviour 12-16 with equity injection.
He has been football disaster 06-22, with exception of a 14-16 with Karanka.
20-21 he made decisions to keep us out of League 1 and create an opportunity to go again.
2022 he has messed that opportunity up quite spectacularly.
Overall I want new chapters under different ownership.
It does not stop me recognising the brilliant impact Gibson had in his early chapters and saying so.
It doesn't stop me being grateful for him finally converting some debt to equity in 2012-2016 and keeping us going.
Nor does it stop me being encouraged by things that look like positive change, like Karanka or clearing the decks through 2021-22.
But they don't stop me arriving at my position. He is the problem, not our hope.
"As I have repeatedly said, without him guaranteeing the debt his decisions in part drove, we would be done"
"My criticism - which still stands - is not for his commitment, but the key decisions he made from 2016-2020"
So you accept the club would not exist without his investment and yet still moan that there's nonone willing to take us on because of it. He's either a saviour or he isn't .
And you state that he's a dictator yet in all of the years of his tenure, according to you, he only got 4 years wrong plus 13 games played sisnce you posted in April.
Contradictory bollox. You slag him from the rafters because we've had a bad start to the season after saying he's only ever had 4 bad years.
"Gibson transformed the club with energy, drive, ambition and pride from taking over as Chairman in 93. He brought us top flight football, international players, a new stadium, training facilities, our first trophy and two consecutive seasons in Europe.
What he did post relegation in 2009 was even more significant as he literally paid for the seismic holes in our finance."
Gushing praise for a man that has run a dictatorship every season.
indeedido
Well-known member
It is not investment you idiot, pay attention. He last invested in 2016. He's only ever invested £64m in total. The club still trades because he loans money to cover the losses he creates. This debt means the club can't be sold. He is not a saviour he is the suppressor. It is the debt and negative value he has created that means there is nobody willing to take it on.
The post clearly shows I say he bungled from 2006-14 and again 2016-20 and again this summer.
An intelligent summary would be he has been good in the 2 years 14-16 and in 20-21. Generously, that's 4 years right, not 4 years wrong.
As above 4 good years in 16, not 4 bad.
I slag him from the rafters right now because of the position we are in after that 12 out of 16 years of appalling leadership.
A financial basket case and in our lowest league position for 35 years.
It is gushing praise and totally justified to 2006 - again as my posts have consistently emphasised.
His running of the club since then has proven to be pathetic.
It is where we are now that matters most.