Where do we stand on this?

Laughing said:
I think it can be a hate crime even if it's an assumed characteristic.

Pakistani in its shortened form is considered racist and people from Pakistan are indestinguishable from their neighbours.

Not sure the characteristic has to be distinguishable.
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It's different. The shortened form of Pakistani can be used as an offensive assumed characteristic based on physical appearance, which is racial.

How is "English B*stard" any different to "Geordie B*stard"? - I'm not questioning it being offensive, it obviously is offensive. I'm questioning it being racist.
 
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Ash88 said:
It's different. The shortened form of Pakistani can be used as an offensive assumed characteristic based on physical appearance, which is racial.

How is "English B*stard" any different to "Geordie B*stard"? - I'm not questioning it being offensive, it obviously is offensive. I'm questioning it being racist.
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Can someone not look English? I would also challenge the assertion that English isn't a race, though I understand why you said it.

A race can be defined as a group, in its loosest meaning and a group that share generic traits would certainly be considered a race.

I am also not sure that racism is the underlying factor here. We surely want all people to live in peace regardless of race, creed, colour, nationality or which football team you support. The issue seems largely all or nothing to me. The fact that white, fat, middle class englishmen don't enjoy the same protections as Asians is what led to the stupid line, all lives matter.
 
Laughing said:
Can someone not look English? I would also challenge the assertion that English isn't a race, though I understand why you said it.

A race can be defined as a group, in its loosest meaning and a group that share generic traits would certainly be considered a race.

I am also not sure that racism is the underlying factor here. We surely want all people to live in peace regardless of race, creed, colour, nationality or which football team you support. The issue seems largely all or nothing to me. The fact that white, fat, middle class englishmen don't enjoy the same protections as Asians is what led to the stupid line, all lives matter.
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In the loosest meaning does that make Mackams and Geordies different races? in the same way English and Welsh are different races?

There's no right or wrong - race is a social construct so it can mean whatever you want to mean.

Totally agree with the underlying factor - We all want peace and any form of abuse in football should be penalised....
I'm not condoning the action in any way, the fan is probably an absolute door knob. I just think the "racist" term has been took out of context.
The intention was to be offensive, and a bell, it wasn't to be racist.

A lot of Boro fans have sang... "Sad mackam B and a S football team" - it doesn't make them racists.
 
Ash88 said:
In the loosest meaning does that make Mackams and Geordies different races? in the same way English and Welsh are different races?

There's no right or wrong - race is a social construct so it can mean whatever you want to mean.

Totally agree with the underlying factor - We all want peace and any form of abuse in football should be penalised....
I'm not condoning the action in any way, the fan is probably an absolute door knob. I just think the "racist" term has been took out of context.
The intention was to be offensive, and a bell, it wasn't to be racist.

A lot of Boro fans have sang... "Sad mackam B and a S football team" - it doesn't make them racists.
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I agree with most of that. The term race does have a very specific definition, though the definition is broad, so yes you would be right in saying race is whatever you or a group decide to define as a grouping characteristic.

The term racist even more specific though I don't know if that is set out in law or if the legal system depends on some common sense so they may have their own definitions.

My main point though was the last paragraph you wrote that I agree with.

The issue for football is where does partisan banter and offence begin and end.

I dunno.
 
If you want to offend Tranmere fans from the Wirral it's best to lead with 'you're just a posh stuck up Scouser'
 
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