Where do we stand on this?

Spurs never get anything done to them. Imagine the equivalent at afcon...
I love a bit of Welsh/Scottish banter and Somehow it does seem cheeky rather than racist. Suppose it is racist really in the dictionary definition. I still get more annoyed at spurs, especially with their massive equality flag in the corner of there ground. Don't get me started on Chelsea
 
speckyget said:
I'll never get why the inalienable right to act like an ar$ehole has to be defended as a sacred part of the matchday experience.
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A lady came on the football clichés podcast semi recently (can't remember her name). She is a comedian and talked about the difference between the men's and the women's game she said the women's game is very safe and lovely and as a gay woman that's great, but the male game is great because it's the opposite, the banter culture the rough sort of experience. She said the best way to make the female game more straight and the male game more gay. I can't do it justice really but it was funny how she said it. The sentiment is exactly how would love football to be banter banter banter but no knuckle-draggers creating threat and spewing bile.
 
speckyget said:
I'll never get why the inalienable right to act like an ar$ehole has to be defended as a sacred part of the matchday experience.
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I don't think anyone is defending being a hole in general. The question is where do we stand on the specific fan being banned for chanting "English B*stard".

Is it racist? No, being English is not a race.
Is it offensive? Yes, but I wouldn't be offended by it.
Is the fan a hole in general? Probably.

Should he have been banned for it? - No (in my opinion).
 
Ash88 said:
I don't think anyone is defending being a hole in general. The question is where do we stand on the specific fan being banned for chanting "English B*stard".

Is it racist? No, being English is not a race.
Is it offensive? Yes, but I wouldn't be offended by it.
Is the fan a hole in general? Probably.

Should he have been banned for it? - No (in my opinion).
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Agree with this, I have seen some pretty nasty stuff when it comes to racism and football whether that be in the stadium or online and this doesn’t come close in my opinion.

It wouldn’t offend me and I think you’d struggle to
find somebody it offends, that being said i would never take part in it or associate with it.

I think a talking to and a don’t do it again would have sufficed in this case.
 
Ash88 said:
I don't think anyone is defending being a hole in general. The question is where do we stand on the specific fan being banned for chanting "English B*stard".

Is it racist? No, being English is not a race.
Is it offensive? Yes, but I wouldn't be offended by it.
Is the fan a hole in general? Probably.

Should he have been banned for it? - No (in my opinion).
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English is ofcourse a race! But no I don't think it should be banned. I have my right to be annoyed by it, if I was sat next to someone shouting Welsh bast@rds next to me. But where I draw the line is threat and aggression.
 
Hmm did the Daily Mail also miss out on this other aspect of the case

“was also banned from attending football matches for three years after admitting to assaulting another man outside Wrexham's STōK Racecourse ground. Tranmere Rovers won the match 1-0.”
 
Zoophonic said:
Hmm did the Daily Mail also miss out on this other aspect of the case

“was also banned from attending football matches for three years after admitting to assaulting another man outside Wrexham's STōK Racecourse ground. Tranmere Rovers won the match 1-0.”
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The Daily Mail spinning the truth? 🫢
 
Perfecthatrick said:
English is ofcourse a race! But no I don't think it should be banned. I have my right to be annoyed by it, if I was sat next to someone shouting Welsh bast@rds next to me. But where I draw the line is threat and aggression.
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English isn't a race. There's a difference between race and ethnicity. There are many people of different races who are still English.

Just out of interest... If someone was shouting "Welsh!" at you, without the b*stard, would you think that person was racist?
 
Zoophonic said:
Hmm did the Daily Mail also miss out on this other aspect of the case

“was also banned from attending football matches for three years after admitting to assaulting another man outside Wrexham's STōK Racecourse ground. Tranmere Rovers won the match 1-0.”
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Why didn't you put the full quote in?

"Monk appeared in court alongside 47-year-old Jason North, of Mold Road, Ewloe Green. North was also banned from attending football matches for three years after admitting to assaulting another man outside Wrexham's STōK Racecourse ground. Tranmere Rovers won the match 1-0."
 
BoroBosco said:
Why didn't you put the full quote in?

"Monk appeared in court alongside 47-year-old Jason North, of Mold Road, Ewloe Green. North was also banned from attending football matches for three years after admitting to assaulting another man outside Wrexham's STōK Racecourse ground. Tranmere Rovers won the match 1-0."
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Well this changes things 😂 .
 
Reading reports other than the Daily Mail it seems Monk went put of his way to approach the Tranmere fans in convoy walking to the ground and screamed "Dirty Scouse b....ds" at them and then returned after being waved away to shout "dirty English b...stds". This wasn't banter on the terraces it was in the street and therefore sounds provocative which he admitted, regretted and got due punishment? His mate went further and was charged with aggravated assault
 
Ash88 said:
English isn't a race. There's a difference between race and ethnicity. There are many people of different races who are still English.

Just out of interest... If someone was shouting "Welsh!" at you, without the b*stard, would you think that person was racist?
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I wouldn't be offended, that doesn't mean English is not a race. the grammar and syntax of your example of shouting "Welsh!" At someone implies seeing a Welsh person and having an extreme reaction to that person based on being Welsh. I beleive English is a race and therefore beleive the Welsh are a race, so the not being offended is redundant. Racism is the act of creating hate. People can tolerate "softer" Racism, but my personal belief is that Racism should only be used to describe the very severe. It's the b@$turds that is the problem. I still wouldn't be offended, but not everyone is like that. Also a great response to angry Welsh people is to remind them that as a country they are not recognised by the un, Its the United Kingdom. Lot of slight semantic and technical specifications here. Basically if you have to work that hard to be offended then no it's not offensive.
 
Perfecthatrick said:
I wouldn't be offended, that doesn't mean English is not a race. the grammar and syntax of your example of shouting "Welsh!" At someone implies seeing a Welsh person and having an extreme reaction to that person based on being Welsh. I beleive English is a race and therefore beleive the Welsh are a race, so the not being offended is redundant. Racism is the act of creating hate. People can tolerate "softer" Racism, but my personal belief is that Racism should only be used to describe the very severe. It's the b@$turds that is the problem. I still wouldn't be offended, but not everyone is like that. Also a great response to angry Welsh people is to remind them that as a country they are not recognised by the un, Its the United Kingdom. Lot of slight semantic and technical specifications here. Basically if you have to work that hard to be offended then no it's not offensive.
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Its a social construct anyway so I guess if you believe it's a race, then to you, it is a race 🤷‍♂️ it's just not a race by the definition - as you can't separate English by a physical characteristic.

Example... The Wrexham fan calling Tranmere fans "English" - is not racist because technically, every single one of those Tranmere fans in the stand could have been Norwegian, or Bulgarian, or from Andorra.

If he was to call them "White b*stards" - assuming a high % of them were white - That is technically "racist" because the insult is based on the physical characteristic of them being white.
 
Ash88 said:
Its a social construct anyway so I guess if you believe it's a race, then to you, it is a race 🤷‍♂️ it's just not a race by the definition - as you can't separate English by a physical characteristic.

Example... The Wrexham fan calling Tranmere fans "English" - is not racist because technically, every single one of those Tranmere fans in the stand could have been Norwegian, or Bulgarian, or from Andorra.

If he was to call them "White b*stards" - assuming a high % of them were white - That is technically "racist" because the insult is based on the physical characteristic of them being white.
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I think it can be a hate crime even if it's an assumed characteristic.

Pakistani in its shortened form is considered racist and people from Pakistan are indestinguishable from their neighbours.

Not sure the characteristic has to be distinguishable.
 
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