When you look back at the Boro from a number of years ago

indeedido said:
Give over man.
You really think everyone wanted Agnew, Monk, pulis, Woodgate????
Even Warnock had a lot of opposition when appointed.

Of course, anyone can make mistakes.
Fans don't meet these appointees, can't research them, but Gibson does and can.
He has made horrendous decisions for years, measured by what has happened after he has made the mistake.
On the pitch and off it the club is in the mire.
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Give over, you tell me, Robbo apart, one manager we've brought in that the fans were 100% in agreement with

Whoever gets brought in would have fans for & against

I was happy we gave the job to Woodgate, liked his vision of how he wanted to play, his ideas, didnt turn out well, I was over the moon with Warnock, happy with Pulis as I thought his experience would benefit the club
Monk again, highly rated manager, mind I didnt want him, back then I wanted Warnock, I mentioned on here Warnock was the only man to take us forward but Gibbo choose Monk, can you hand on heart say you knew it would turn out as it did, could you hand on heart say any manager who hasnt done to well here

Was Karanka a 100% backed by the fans when he came in, probably not

Agnew wasnt brought in, like Leo he was already at the club & like Leo, Colin Cooper, Mark Venus, John Pickering, Harold Shepherdson was put in the role until a replacement was found

Unlike you Gibbo hasnt got a crytsal ball, yes I've been critical of him of late regarding the lack of quality players we've brought in that could have maybe had us fighting the top 2/playoffs instead of older journeymen players & projects

Maybe you should tell Gibbo who will be guarenteed to come in & give us instant success, you could tell us now who will guarentee us a rosy future
 
Depends which generation you are. If you started with TLF, or the LC, or Europe, it must be hard to contemplate 3rd tier football.
Boomers have seen it all before.
 
Anton_Berg said:
Depends which generation you are. If you started with TLF, or the LC, or Europe, it must be hard to contemplate 3rd tier football.
Boomers have seen it all before.
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Seen third division football twice before - and to have a return back there I find not a very attractive prospect.
 
Erimus74 said:
Give over, you tell me, Robbo apart, one manager we've brought in that the fans were 100% in agreement with

Whoever gets brought in would have fans for & against

I was happy we gave the job to Woodgate, liked his vision of how he wanted to play, his ideas, didnt turn out well, I was over the moon with Warnock, happy with Pulis as I thought his experience would benefit the club
Monk again, highly rated manager, mind I didnt want him, back then I wanted Warnock, I mentioned on here Warnock was the only man to take us forward but Gibbo choose Monk, can you hand on heart say you knew it would turn out as it did, could you hand on heart say any manager who hasnt done to well here

Was Karanka a 100% backed by the fans when he came in, probably not

Agnew wasnt brought in, like Leo he was already at the club & like Leo, Colin Cooper, Mark Venus, John Pickering, Harold Shepherdson was put in the role until a replacement was found

Unlike you Gibbo hasnt got a crytsal ball, yes I've been critical of him of late regarding the lack of quality players we've brought in that could have maybe had us fighting the top 2/playoffs instead of older journeymen players & projects

Maybe you should tell Gibbo who will be guarenteed to come in & give us instant success, you could tell us now who will guarentee us a rosy future
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It was you who posted everyone was happy at the time with all Gibson’s appointments.
I simply pointed out that they weren’t all happy and certainly not with all the appointments.
Gibson gets to meet all candidates, vet them and decide.
Whether he is right or not is revealed when they are done, not at appointment.
He has made shocker after shocker.
 
indeedido said:
It was you who posted everyone was happy at the time with all Gibson’s appointments.
I simply pointed out that they weren’t all happy and certainly not with all the appointments.
Gibson gets to meet all candidates, vet them and decide.
Whether he is right or not is revealed when they are done, not at appointment.
He has made shocker after shocker.
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Maybe I worded it wrong, think people knew where I was coming from, do I know every Boro fan to ask their opinion, no, so I can only assume that & going by this board I've yet to see 100% for or against any new incoming managers, until hes sacked tben he was a disaster to have been appointed
 
He hasn’t moved with the times, there is no board discussing what is the best way forward for the club, there are no fresh ideas on how to progress the club on or indeed off the field. In short the club has been rotting from the head down since that final whistle blew at Eindhoven, and Gibson himself has become the biggest problem the club has. He’s not the messiah anymore, he’s not even a very naughty boy - he’s becoming much worse than that. He’s in danger of being remembered for taking the club into the lower leagues, rather than the highs of cup finals and bringing in some of the brightest talents in football to the Riverside. If he gets this next managerial appointment wrong his crown won’t just have slipped it’ll be on the floor in pieces
 
Erimus74 said:
Maybe I worded it wrong, think people knew where I was coming from, do I know every Boro fan to ask their opinion, no, so I can only assume that & going by this board I've yet to see 100% for or against any new incoming managers, until hes sacked tben he was a disaster to have been appointed
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You continue to miss the point.
There is no universal verdict when any manager is appointed - I agree.
The success of an appointment can only be assessed after the manager has managed.
Agnew, Monk, pulis and Woodgate were not successful.
Gibson made all the appointments; approached them, researched them, interviewed them, vetted them.
Ultimately Wilder was unsuccessful too.

There may be mitigating reasons, but these are usually to do with whether the manager was given the support/backing he needed/was guaranteed.

Monk was undoubtedly backed, but was a numpty.
pulis was backed, but was a crook and a dinosaur.
Woodgate was backed to a degree, even if much lower budget, but was ill equipped.
Warnock was backed to a degree, at least with loans, while the dead wood was moved out. He did pretty well IMHO.
Wilder arrived after the deadwood and simply was not backed this summer. Ultimately he failed and has to take some of the responsibility himself.

The fans can't be consulted before an appointment for obvious reasons. But they are entitled to look back after a series of appointments and reflect that the bloke making the decisions has had a terrible run post Karanka.

Lowest league position for 35 years and £120m underwater.
 
indeedido said:
You continue to miss the point.
There is no universal verdict when any manager is appointed - I agree.
The success of an appointment can only be assessed after the manager has managed.
Agnew, Monk, pulis and Woodgate were not successful.
Gibson made all the appointments; approached them, researched them, interviewed them, vetted them.
Ultimately Wilder was unsuccessful too.

There may be mitigating reasons, but these are usually to do with whether the manager was given the support/backing he needed/was guaranteed.

Monk was undoubtedly backed, but was a numpty.
pulis was backed, but was a crook and a dinosaur.
Woodgate was backed to a degree, even if much lower budget, but was ill equipped.
Warnock was backed to a degree, at least with loans, while the dead wood was moved out. He did pretty well IMHO.
Wilder arrived after the deadwood and simply was not backed this summer. Ultimately he failed and has to take some of the responsibility himself.

The fans can't be consulted before an appointment for obvious reasons. But they are entitled to look back after a series of appointments and reflect that the bloke making the decisions has had a terrible run post Karanka.

Lowest league position for 35 years and £120m underwater.
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Ok we'll leave it there
 
indeedido said:
Woodgate was backed to a degree, even if much lower budget, but was ill equipped.
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indeedido said:
Wilder arrived after the deadwood and simply was not backed this summer.
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Come on be serious. One gets less than £2m to sign 3 youngsters from league one. The other gets premier league loanees, signings from La Liga, rivals captains... Theres no contest. Genuinely any analysis that decides Woodgate was backed and Wilder wasn't is delusional.
 
indeedido said:
You continue to miss the point.
There is no universal verdict when any manager is appointed - I agree.
The success of an appointment can only be assessed after the manager has managed.
Agnew, Monk, pulis and Woodgate were not successful.
Gibson made all the appointments; approached them, researched them, interviewed them, vetted them.
Ultimately Wilder was unsuccessful too.

There may be mitigating reasons, but these are usually to do with whether the manager was given the support/backing he needed/was guaranteed.

Monk was undoubtedly backed, but was a numpty.
pulis was backed, but was a crook and a dinosaur.
Woodgate was backed to a degree, even if much lower budget, but was ill equipped.
Warnock was backed to a degree, at least with loans, while the dead wood was moved out. He did pretty well IMHO.
Wilder arrived after the deadwood and simply was not backed this summer. Ultimately he failed and has to take some of the responsibility himself.

The fans can't be consulted before an appointment for obvious reasons. But they are entitled to look back after a series of appointments and reflect that the bloke making the decisions has had a terrible run post Karanka.

Lowest league position for 35 years and £120m underwater.
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Misses your point maybe, you let your feelings towards Gibson to cloud what is actually happening or happened. Saying wilder wasn’t backed is ridiculous.
 
SuperStu said:
Come on be serious. One gets less than £2m to sign 3 youngsters from league one. The other gets premier league loanees, signings from La Liga, rivals captains... Theres no contest. Genuinely any analysis that decides Woodgate was backed and Wilder wasn't is delusional.
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The club's wage bill and finances were completely different at each appointment.

Under Woodgate, the club still had amortisation charges from Monk and pulis' insane signings to cover, they still had huge wages to cover and faced Covid collapsing revenues. That Woodgate got any signings for fees demonstrated some backing IN THOSE circumstances.

By Wilder arriving, the revenues were recovering, the wage bill was reduced, and the amortisation done with Assombolonga, Fletcher et al out of the door. This summer they also took in £22.5m (minimum) profit from the sale of 2 players with no book value.
As things stand the club have a c£20m profit from player dealings AFTER the summer business. Wilder was absolutely not supported in the windows.
 
Alex-The-Kid said:
Misses your point maybe, you let your feelings towards Gibson to cloud what is actually happening or happened. Saying wilder wasn’t backed is ridiculous.
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Straight back at you.
Your starry eyed view of Gibson stops you seeing what has happened.
I can still remember and will still applaud what he did 93-06. It was phenomenal - however he did it.
But it is 16 years ago. You can see no problems.
Just have a look at the league table and the Published Accounts to June 30th 2021.
 
indeedido said:
The debt v equity "thing" is of course important to a potential new owner.
What indication do you have that Gibson will write the debt to Group off, either now or at a potential sale?
He has only ever done in 2012 (£50m), 2014 (£5m) and 2016 (£8m), but nothing since then. He has only actually injected £64m in his entire ownership, the rest is loans from Group (intra Group Balance Sheet switches). He hasn't "pumped" it in until he writes the loans off.
Since 2016 he has wasted the promotion opportunity and subsequent Parachute Payments and added £60m to the debt (and that is only up to June 2021).
From an FFP perspective too he could have converted £8m every season for the last 6 seasons.
With £50m less debt and more equity, then the club would be significantly more attractive to a new buyer and less of a basket case.
That is only relevant if he is actually willing to sell and let go.
He thinks he is the only one who can run it, or deserves to run it. He will never voluntarily let go and finally lose the money he has wasted.

IF he is prepared to write it off, then the club would actually have a zero book value, not the -£120m it currently does.
If he is prepared to convert that debt to equity then the club has little to no value, but has no significant external debt either, so a potential buyer would look at potential future revenue and prospect of unlocking it, in determining what they might pay Gibson for his equity.

The question is will Gibson voluntarily give away the £120m people think he has actually already given the club, but hasn't.
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He's only injected 64 million in his entire ownership. 🤣.

The other 60 million interest free loans. Other than what you pay for, in terms of watching the team, how.much have you injected and how much have you provided interst free? Me over and above what I have paid to watch or bought, nothing and I never would into a football club, no matter how much I had.

Of course SG is not beyound questionning, but he can't win, he is critised when he spends money and makes the club a financial 'basket case', and he is criticised when he doesn't and is accused of havi g lost his ambition I always find it disrectful when people want to tell other people how they should have spent their own money.
 
indeedido said:
Straight back at you.
Your starry eyed view of Gibson stops you seeing what has happened.
I can still remember and will still applaud what he did 93-06. It was phenomenal - however he did it.
But it is 16 years ago. You can see no problems.
Just have a look at the league table and the Published Accounts to June 30th 2021.
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My view of Gibson is that he’s an extremely hard working Teessider who’s done very well for himself and his family and this cannot be disputed.

He is the custodian of our football club, we’ve had great times and not so great times, he’s made some wonderful decisions and not so wonderful decisions but who hasn’t and I truly believe he has the best interests of the club in his thinking and decision making.

He’s bank rolled our club to prevent it from being sent into the financial abyss, made some questionable financial decisions in terms of appointments and signings but also some very good ones too which put the boro on the map in the earlier years.

He’s a man who stands up for what he believes in and that for me is somebody who I respect whether I agree with him or not. When derby wronged our football club he stood up and made sure we didn’t take it lying down and got justice for our football club.

He’s attempting to take the club on a more sustainable path with Scott and the recruitment team to which I applaud and am willing to be patient with rather than being gung ho with his investments as he has done in the past.

I don’t agree with everything Gibson does or has done and I’m not starry eyed as you so put but he’s a man with integrity and a man who has the best interests of our club and I hope he leads us back to where we belong.
 
Johnny Vincents Motorbike said:
pushing your agenda against Middlesbrough Football Club & targeting with hate the constant achievements of Steve Gibson
​
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This is thing I can't fathom, people associate these two separate things as one thing.

You can have 'an agenda' or a list of things that the executives of the club have mis-managed and it be purely be against the way the club has been managed, not Middlesbrough Football Club.

But equally you can think he's done a dreadful job as Chairman for ten years plus, without being very critical of Steve Gibson as a human being, or his achievements as a business man or everything he did for the club up until Southgate.

What will all the 100% Gibson can't be criticised crowd do if we go up and he sells us? Start supporting the next Chairman?

I just don't get it.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
Who “destroyed their confidence” when they buckled under Woodgate and Warnock?
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Different players, different situations. Woodgate was overloaded imo, coaching young players, finding the the right way to play loan players, dealing with wasters like Gestede. He needed a more competent assistant than Robbie Keane.

Warnock gambled on players and it didn’t pay off. NML never made the grade, Bolasie was injured.. the start of the next season our entire first choice back four was injured.
 
newyddion said:
Different players, different situations. Woodgate was overloaded imo, coaching young players, finding the the right way to play loan players, dealing with wasters like Gestede. He needed a more competent assistant than Robbie Keane.

Warnock gambled on players and it didn’t pay off. NML never made the grade, Bolasie was injured.. the start of the next season our entire first choice back four was injured.
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Our first choice back four wasn’t injured at the same time, we had these discussions at the time. I think this was just after Warnock loaned out the only two wing backs on the books and then decided to play with wing backs. And that’s without mentioning the previous season, when they were in touch of the playoffs and then faded into obscurity.

Dijksteel, Fry, Bola, McNair, Howson. That’s the core of our playing staff, save for Crooks and *possibly* young Duncan. Not a leader to be seen. They’re decent sorts. But these lads are supposed to set the tone and they just don’t do it, let’s have it straight. They’ve performed in fits and starts for years.

How many of this outfield team would get into Aitor’s promotion team? Exactly. Not a single one of them.
 
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