When you look back at the Boro from a number of years ago

Error strewn? I don't recall anyone suggesting Chris Wilder's appointment was anything other than a triumph.

Not many thought his sacking was the wrong move.

And unconditional support for the owner? He is the OWNER. He doesn't owe the fans anything. It's his club. The fans can support the club, or not support the club, it's their choice. The choice they have is to pay for a ticket, or not.

Steve Gibson doesn't have that choice, and his ticket costs millions of £.

As for all this stuff about debt or equity support, it doesn't matter one iota. The club is not viable, when he comes to sell it Steve Gibson won't have any alternative but to write off the inter company loans. There's no reason to convert any more debt into equity for as long as the club is a basket case, and even in the Prem League it barely made any money.

Why should Steve Gibson divulge names or details of ongoing negotiations to find a new manager? I didn't tell everyone about people I was recruiting before they'd signed on the dotted line. The negotiations are confidential and sensitive.

If you, or someone you know wants to take over at MFC then get your act together and do it.
3rd bottom in the division- our worst position for 40 years? 5 managers in a little over 5 years - this looks a stable position? Selling your most creative and complete midfielder on the eve of the season without replacing him? Recruitment has and continues to be very poor - is that not the truth?

We are stuck with Gibbo come what may as he created a financial environment and debt to scare off any would be purchaser. So the only hope is he realises the errors and acts on them.

Not holding my breath on this happening.
 
We are stuck with Gibbo come what may as he created a financial environment and debt to scare off any would be purchaser. So the only hope is he realises the errors and acts on them.

Not holding my breath on this happening.

What errors? Appointing managers with good track records? Appointing football directors with good track records?

If the recruiters can't sign the players that the manager wants, then maybe they were not realistic targets.

And the debt v equity thing is just not important. If there is anyone out there who wants to buy MFC then a write off will be the first thing that happens.
 
People always express their frustrations after a loss on here for a few days.
The anti club cadre are the minority but others tend to stay off here after a loss, so they appear in the majority.
 
Ah be careful what you wish for…. The stock statement trotted out time and time again. New owners in recent times - Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford, Leicester, Villa, Wolves to name a few - not been a disaster for them
.... and the new owners at Derby, Ipswich, Sheff Wed, Bolton, Bury, Sunderland, Oldham, Portsmouth, Charlton, ......... ?
 
The decline was in operation before Wilder. The season in the Prem we were still woefully undercooked - and that was the last time we made a profit. Bottom line there is one person who has presided and being the main part culpable - Gibbo
Beating Spurs and Man Utd in in the cup and heading for the playoffs.

Since Wilder was linked with Burnley and since then we have been in a severe decline.. it has been solely down to one person..
 
As Boro fans we are all frustrated at the moment and as people we are inevitably looking for reasons, the cause and effect the silver bullet if you like. In reality there isn’t a simple solution, but personally I find it interesting to read different points of view. No need for vitriol towards fellow posters.

Hopefully we’ll get a couple of wins in the next two games. Yes, we were poor yesterday, but Blackburn aren’t a bad side and for all our shortcomings yesterday they tore us apart down the channels with their movement in the first half. Perhaps 4 at the back will be our holy grail?
 
5 managers in a little over 5 years

Wilder - "I don't understand the expectations here" after 3 nil down at home at half time. Had to go, right choice.

Warnock - could count himself a little harshly done to, maybe results would have improved with the injured defenders coming back in. But he was going at the end of the season anyway and it allowed us to get what seemed like a top manager in Wilder. Perfectly reasonable decision.

Woodgate - was taking us down. Had to go. Right choice.

Pulis - I suppose the club could have extended his contract for the sake of having the same manager for longer. Looking at the transfer funds Woodgate got the following season, and Pulis' time at Sheff Wed I don't think anyone could reasonably say with any certainty that it was a bad decision to let Pulis go.

Monk - hands in the till. What sort of business doesn't ditch him? 100% correct, no questions.

Agnew - never looked like keeping us up. Don't recall anyone on here saying we should stick by him after the relegation season.

Karanka - lost the plot. Reached the point where he was going in to pressers and slating the fans, the clubs, new signings as we're announcing them in. Had to go.

I keep seeing people on here intimating that we're trigger happy with managers now. I don't buy it. I really don't think it'd be a difficult job to keep. If a manager comes in and has us consistently top half in the championship, doesn't slander the fans or deliberately/thoughtlessly devalue club assets, and doesn't openly court moves to other clubs they'd get as long as they like.
 
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Wilder - "I don't understand the expectations here" after 3 nil down at home at half time. Had to go, right choice.

Warnock - could count himself a little harshly done to, maybe results would have improved with the injured defenders coming back in. But he was going at the end of the season anyway and it allowed us to get what seemed like a top manager in Wilder. Perfectly reasonable decision.

Woodgate - was taking us down. Had to go. Right choice.

Pulis - I suppose the club could have extended his contract for the sake of having the same manager for longer. Looking at the transfer funds Woodgate got the following season, and Pulis' time at Sheff Wed I don't think anyone could reasonably say with any certainty that it was a bad decision to let Pulis go.

Monk - hands in the till. What sort of business doesn't ditch him? 100% correct, no questions.

Agnew - never looked like keeping us up. Don't recall anyone on here saying we should stick by him after the relegation season.

Karanka - lost the plot. Reached the point where he was going in to pressers and slating the fans, the clubs, new signings as we're announcing them in. Had to go.

I keep seeing people on here intimating that we're trigger happy with managers now. I don't buy it. I really don't think it'd be a difficult job to keep. If a manager comes in and has us consistently top half in the championship, doesn't slander the fans or deliberately/thoughtlessly devalue club assets, and doesn't openly court moves to other clubs they'd get as long as they like.
Just pish poor appointments in the first place then? Wilder, perhaps saw the club was not what he had been told - and given to expect. Of course that doesn’t excuse his outrageous behaviour at trying to get out of the club. But could he see how words weren’t matched by actions?
 
Gibbo can’t afford to compete anymore in the league where he tells us he wants to every renewal date. Problem is, he has no intention of relinquishing control or ownership. So this is the stand off.

Bausor is now the only other listed director of the club, added last year, so he’s going nowhere. His CEOship has wasted millions and seen us fall far short of what we’re putting in or our potential. Nothing is changing as he continues to make it up as he goes along and rebrands it every year or two.

He has no challenge publicly as the local media are dependent on their small leaks from within the club, and were subsequently banned when they dared aim the spotlight at Gibsons decisions. Tallentire is now a post man.

It’s all a sad, predictable demise. But as his last defenders will tell us - we don’t have to watch it.
 
Just pish poor appointments in the first place then? Wilder, perhaps saw the club was not what he had been told - and given to expect. Of course that doesn’t excuse his outrageous behaviour at trying to get out of the club. But could he see how words weren’t matched by actions?
Who knows but he came across as a bit of a chancer to me. Full of himself but couldn't do it. His last club are doing ok without him.
 
Just pish poor appointments in the first place then?

Not in my opinion. Lets go down the list again.

Wilder - obviously signed hoping he'd recreate/better what he did at Sheff Utd. Perfectly reasonable appointment at the time.

Warno - loads of promotions, obviously hoped he had one more in him. Can't really ask for better credentials though. Perfectly reasonable appointment at the time.

Woodgate - club were obviously skint AF and I'd guess maybe Gibson was feeling a bit burnt by Monk still and wanted an insider he felt he could trust. Obv a big risk being Woodgates first management gig but we've had success with rookies before and maybe you'd hope he had links to Spurs and Madrid to help us out. Understandable appointment.

Pulis - Obviously hoping he might recreate the promotion and decade in the prem he managed with Stoke. Perfectly reasonable appointment.

Monk - Was doing well with Leeds when they'd been garbage for ages. Suppose we were trying to get ahead of it for once. Who'd have thought he'd end up doing the stuff he was?

Agnew - not going to defend that one. Agree it was a bit of a capitulation when who knows maybe someone could have come in and scraped us up to 17th.

Karanka - got us up so have to say good appointment surely?

Wilder, perhaps saw the club was not what he had been told - and given to expect.

Maybe Wilder wasn't honest with the club either? Surely he didn't go in to an interview with Gibson and say "the expectation should be 3 nil down at HT in home games, I'll get relegated if you sell Tav, and even though there's a Director of Football already at the club if you sign young strikers instead of the 36 year olds I want I'll have them rotting in the reserves"?
 
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Thing is how many managers who Gibson brought in would have been the fans choice, IMHO, everyone, just when they came in it didnt work end of, thats not down to Gibbo, he's brought in managers who he thought were best suited for the job, Gibbo is not beyond critacism but surely managers have to be accountable too
 
Wilder - "I don't understand the expectations here" after 3 nil down at home at half time. Had to go, right choice.

Warnock - could count himself a little harshly done to, maybe results would have improved with the injured defenders coming back in. But he was going at the end of the season anyway and it allowed us to get what seemed like a top manager in Wilder. Perfectly reasonable decision.

Woodgate - was taking us down. Had to go. Right choice.

Pulis - I suppose the club could have extended his contract for the sake of having the same manager for longer. Looking at the transfer funds Woodgate got the following season, and Pulis' time at Sheff Wed I don't think anyone could reasonably say with any certainty that it was a bad decision to let Pulis go.

Monk - hands in the till. What sort of business doesn't ditch him? 100% correct, no questions.

Agnew - never looked like keeping us up. Don't recall anyone on here saying we should stick by him after the relegation season.

Karanka - lost the plot. Reached the point where he was going in to pressers and slating the fans, the clubs, new signings as we're announcing them in. Had to go.

I keep seeing people on here intimating that we're trigger happy with managers now. I don't buy it. I really don't think it'd be a difficult job to keep. If a manager comes in and has us consistently top half in the championship, doesn't slander the fans or deliberately/thoughtlessly devalue club assets, and doesn't openly court moves to other clubs they'd get as long as they like.
I agree with most of your appraisal there. I also have been one of those calling out our high managerial turnover but I also believe that’s partly down to the parties Gibson is trying to keep happy.

If we really were going to appoint the guy with the best CV at this point (as you would in most other industries) it would be Dyche, Allardyce or Bruce but appoint a manager who isn’t focused on playing a high pressing game at the moment at your peril! So, like most clubs, we are just in this cycle of sacking managers every time we hit trouble. We used to be more patient with managers but then again we used to have more money to throw around in the knowledge that it would eventually bring some form of success.
 
And the debt v equity thing is just not important. If there is anyone out there who wants to buy MFC then a write off will be the first thing that happens.
The debt v equity "thing" is of course important to a potential new owner.
What indication do you have that Gibson will write the debt to Group off, either now or at a potential sale?
He has only ever done in 2012 (£50m), 2014 (£5m) and 2016 (£8m), but nothing since then. He has only actually injected £64m in his entire ownership, the rest is loans from Group (intra Group Balance Sheet switches). He hasn't "pumped" it in until he writes the loans off.
Since 2016 he has wasted the promotion opportunity and subsequent Parachute Payments and added £60m to the debt (and that is only up to June 2021).
From an FFP perspective too he could have converted £8m every season for the last 6 seasons.
With £50m less debt and more equity, then the club would be significantly more attractive to a new buyer and less of a basket case.
That is only relevant if he is actually willing to sell and let go.
He thinks he is the only one who can run it, or deserves to run it. He will never voluntarily let go and finally lose the money he has wasted.

IF he is prepared to write it off, then the club would actually have a zero book value, not the -£120m it currently does.
If he is prepared to convert that debt to equity then the club has little to no value, but has no significant external debt either, so a potential buyer would look at potential future revenue and prospect of unlocking it, in determining what they might pay Gibson for his equity.

The question is will Gibson voluntarily give away the £120m people think he has actually already given the club, but hasn't.
 
Thing is how many managers who Gibson brought in would have been the fans choice, IMHO, everyone
Give over man.
You really think everyone wanted Agnew, Monk, pulis, Woodgate????
Even Warnock had a lot of opposition when appointed.

Of course, anyone can make mistakes.
Fans don't meet these appointees, can't research them, but Gibson does and can.
He has made horrendous decisions for years, measured by what has happened after he has made the mistake.
On the pitch and off it the club is in the mire.
 
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