What was that about Saudi Arabia the progressive society

I lived in Saudi for 6 months.

Believe me - there is nothing progressive about KSA.

However, the corrupt royals want you to believe that they are moving forward and becoming a modern Liberal place.

It's not!!
 
Wiseman_Vaughn said:
I lived in Saudi for 6 months.

Believe me - there is nothing progressive about KSA.

However, the corrupt royals want you to believe that they are moving forward and becoming a modern Liberal place.

It's not!!
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When did you live there? I've been in KSA for many years and have many close Saudi friends, and can absolutely see huge progression in terms of openess, progression and a balancing of rights for the people here.
Much has changed in the last 3 or 4 years, in fact too quickly for some of the more Conservative Saudis and clearly there is much more to be done but it has to be done in a measured way or may backfire.

For what it's worth, the vast majority of Saudi people are meet are tremendous folks, warm, engaging and hungry for change.

It's all too easy for western cultures to judge others from an often hypocritical viewpoint.
 
Johnny Vincents Motorbike said:
im not defending SA in anyway - but progressive change does not come at the flick of a switch across all spheres - it is evolution not revolution, regardless of the country & culture involved.
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That is a very good point.
In some respects, in evolution terms, they are a very young nation.

The so called first world has been at this for centuries.
USA are rolling back on abortion rights and we are throwing other humans on a flight to Rwanda which has a human rights record not far better than KSA.
 
Manhead said:
When did you live there? I've been in KSA for many years and have many close Saudi friends, and can absolutely see huge progression in terms of openess, progression and a balancing of rights for the people here.
Much has changed in the last 3 or 4 years, in fact too quickly for some of the more Conservative Saudis and clearly there is much more to be done but it has to be done in a measured way or may backfire.

For what it's worth, the vast majority of Saudi people are meet are tremendous folks, warm, engaging and hungry for change.

It's all too easy for western cultures to judge others from an often hypocritical viewpoint.
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Agree with that - I was last there 7 years ago and the progress I’d seen in the previous 4 years was reassuring.
None more so than University education for women.
Change comes internally from educated citizens.

Clearly though there is much more to do.
 
Manhead said:
When did you live there? I've been in KSA for many years and have many close Saudi friends, and can absolutely see huge progression in terms of openess, progression and a balancing of rights for the people here.
Much has changed in the last 3 or 4 years, in fact too quickly for some of the more Conservative Saudis and clearly there is much more to be done but it has to be done in a measured way or may backfire.

For what it's worth, the vast majority of Saudi people are meet are tremendous folks, warm, engaging and hungry for change.

It's all too easy for western cultures to judge others from an often hypocritical viewpoint.
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Fair enough It was 2000 but I lived elsewhere in the region until 2017
 
Gunslinger said:
AS long as people are forced to tolerate man made fantasies like religion it will never go away.................because at the end of the day, that's the problem
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but you live your life in 2022 - a date based on the birth of Jesus Christ - in Islam its 1442 AH - in Judaism its 5782.

we live on these islands were religion decides who can be 'king or queen'

we have a proportion of the crowns subjects (not citizens) who reject a simple gesture bringing attention to Equality regardless of colour, sex, or creed!

British laws evolve and are inter-twined from Canon Law.

there has never been a roman catholic prime minister (Blair became a RC after leaving office - DePfeffel was baptised a Catholic in America, but became an anglican at Eton)




so you may very well have a good point to make - but its also true for those living on these islands - not just those living in far off lands and with a different culture - its very much alive here.
 
Manhead said:
When did you live there? I've been in KSA for many years and have many close Saudi friends, and can absolutely see huge progression in terms of openess, progression and a balancing of rights for the people here.
Much has changed in the last 3 or 4 years, in fact too quickly for some of the more Conservative Saudis and clearly there is much more to be done but it has to be done in a measured way or may backfire.

For what it's worth, the vast majority of Saudi people are meet are tremendous folks, warm, engaging and hungry for change.

It's all too easy for western cultures to judge others from an often hypocritical viewpoint.
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Yep, good post. I was a Saudi kid, grew up in Jeddah in the 80's and 90's. When I go back there now, its a world apart from what it was. Small progressive steps, it is getting better.

You are absolutely right on the people, they are incredibly friendly and welcoming.
 
I have grave suspicion about these progressive policies, I think its likely they are been implemented to appease the west do people really believe the ruling authorities have changed their opinion on these matters such as womens rights.

To me religion and governance should never be entwined some of these religious beliefs are beyond archiac. The US is another country which has gone backwards because of religious interference, secular states likes the Nordics lead the way
 
Glover_elbow said:
I have grave suspicion about these progressive policies, I think its likely they are been implemented to appease the west do people really believe the ruling authorities have changed their opinion on these matters such as womens rights.

To me religion and governance should never be entwined some of these religious beliefs are beyond archiac. The US is another country which has gone backwards because of religious interference, secular states likes the Nordics lead the way
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Nope, it's being done to appease the young Saudi population who are demanding change. There is a massive push on equality for women and it is not just lip service, everyday sees women taking more senior positions across all types of business. They are hungry for it and are really starting to excel in lots of ways.
The thing about trying to appease the West is quite a patronising thing to say and way off the mark.
 
Manhead said:
Nope, it's being done to appease the young Saudi population who are demanding change. There is a massive push on equality for women and it is not just lip service, everyday sees women taking more senior positions across all types of business. They are hungry for it and are really starting to excel in lots of ways.
The thing about trying to appease the West is quite a patronising thing to say and way off the mark.
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Why do think the Saudi establishment is happy to support women's rights after years of policies doing the exact opposite. Purely pressure from young people I find that hard to believe
 
Australia once banned the sale of R* video games in the country because they were the producers of Grand Theft Auto. This even included the R* produced table tennis game.

This was many moons ago, I think you can buy the games over there now. Progression.
 
There are problems throughout the whole region, Saudi being probably the worst.
Treatment of Labourers, Religious intolerance, oppression of Gay people and women, lack of democracy all need addressing before we can say that they are moving in the right direction.
 
Glover_elbow said:
Why do think the Saudi establishment is happy to support women's rights after years of policies doing the exact opposite. Purely pressure from young people I find that hard to believe
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They have had a complete change in leadership over the last few years, have a young leader and the old hardcore of extremely pious leaders have been chucked out, along with the religious police etc.
Saudi has a very young population and there is huge demand for change or fear what's happened elsewhere like the Arab spring.

The changes recently have been immense and the country feel massively different these days with people very optimistic about the future for the first time in decades.

Yes, still a very long way to go but they deserve credit for what has been achieved so far and the desire to keep going. Your quite welcome to your own opinions, all I can comment on is what I see everyday.
 
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