What they are keeping from us

this is what i mean, what figures do we believe?

According to macrotrends who do global graphs, 2019 per 1000 people 9.398 mortality rate, 2020 9.413 mortality rate.

I am not trying to score points or win any arguments but depending on who you believe you can take things very differently.
 
bear66 said:
No. The October data isn't available yet. And I have no idea where he got no excess deaths year on year figure as it is nonsense.
Click to expand...

Bear, isn’t the data available for the first 3 weeks of Oct. Might be provisional but no significant excess deaths.
It’s been the same since end of May.
It could all change, of course,


Bigger issue on Fridgeman’s original point.

Whenever climate change gets discussed on the news we always get a climate change denier for ‘balance’
I don’t think I’ve seen the same for those who think lockdown is the wrong way forward
 
1finny said:
Bear, isn’t the data available for the first 3 weeks of Oct. Might be provisional but no significant excess deaths.
It’s been the same since end of May.
It could all change, of course,


Bigger issue on Fridgeman’s original point.

Whenever climate change gets discussed on the news we always get a climate change denier for ‘balance’
I don’t think I’ve seen the same for those who think lockdown is the wrong way forward
Click to expand...
Week 40 (Up to 2 October) excess deaths 4.1% above 5 year average
Week 41 (Up to 9 October) excess deaths 1.5% above 5 year average
Week 42( Up to 16 October) excess deaths 6.8% above 5 year average
 
1finny said:
Whenever climate change gets discussed on the news we always get a climate change denier for ‘balance’
Click to expand...

Do we heckers like! Climate change is presented as a done deal not even the possibility of naturally occuring warming cycles are discussed anymore.
 
It is a done deal. There can be no argument about that. The only arguments can be about whether climate change can be halted, slowed or reversed or is it already too late and what will that mean.
 
rob_fmttm said:
It is a done deal. There can be no argument about that. The only arguments can be about whether climate change can be halted, slowed or reversed or is it already too late and what will that mean.
Click to expand...

Apologies Rob it was not my intention to trigger a wander into another 'conspiracy' minefield.:censored:
 
Weekly number of deaths in England and Wales 2020
Published by Statista Research Department, Oct 27, 2020
In the week ending October 16, 2020 there were just over 10.5 thousand deaths registered in England and Wales, an increase of 580 from the previous week and 669 more than the average for this week between 2014 and 2019. The sharp increase in deaths in April 2020 can be attributed to the excess deaths which were caused by the Coronavirus pandemic.

on this week ending, sadly 669 more deaths than the five year average but lower than the ten year average but in years to come how many will die because they are not being treated now? and out of the 669 extra deaths how many can be contributed to not seeking help due to covid19, again sadly I know of two young men in their 30 who have taken their own lives.

I am genuinely concerned about covid19 but equally concerned that the data and science is blinkered.
 
rob_fmttm said:
Can people stop posting this conspiracy rubbish on here.
Thousands have died, thousands more have been very sick and thousands more would perish if we did not respect this pandemic - and that is just in this country.
Stop posting this stuff. Go and ask someone working at your local hospital. This is very real. And sadly lots and lots of people are continuing to pay the ultimate price. Have some respect.
Click to expand...
It’s not conspiracy rubbish Rob, it’s discussion of interpretation of figures. Noone is disputing many have died this year, but they are wondering of what when presented with a myriad of figures from various sources. No one doesn’t believe it’s not real, they are querying what is counted as a COVID death eg COVID positive test, hit by car 3 days later, is that a death with COVID Vs a death caused by COVID? Conspiracy rubbish is that COVID is as a result of 5G Internet / radio waves etc being used by China to take over the world. Let people discuss their interpretations of figures, it’s perfectly reasonable. I’ll be honest, I have no idea which set of figures / interpretations to believe anymore.
 
Last edited:
Fridgeman said:
Weekly number of deaths in England and Wales 2020
Published by Statista Research Department, Oct 27, 2020
In the week ending October 16, 2020 there were just over 10.5 thousand deaths registered in England and Wales, an increase of 580 from the previous week and 669 more than the average for this week between 2014 and 2019. The sharp increase in deaths in April 2020 can be attributed to the excess deaths which were caused by the Coronavirus pandemic.

on this week ending, sadly 669 more deaths than the five year average but lower than the ten year average but in years to come how many will die because they are not being treated now? and out of the 669 extra deaths how many can be contributed to not seeking help due to covid19, again sadly I know of two young men in their 30 who have taken their own lives.

I am genuinely concerned about covid19 but equally concerned that the data and science is blinkered.
Click to expand...
You can expect to excess deaths for the next 3 week because people are dying from covid again
 
rob_fmttm said:
Can people stop posting this conspiracy rubbish on here.
Thousands have died, thousands more have been very sick and thousands more would perish if we did not respect this pandemic - and that is just in this country.
Stop posting this stuff. Go and ask someone working at your local hospital. This is very real. And sadly lots and lots of people are continuing to pay the ultimate price. Have some respect.
Click to expand...

sorry Rob, I am not suggesting covid19 is not real, far from this, I am not suggesting people have not died and will continue to die as I know they will, I do not want to offend anyone I am just confused about the data as its very easy to get conflicting data elsewhere that makes me feel worried for the future of people who are not seeking help now metal or physical, its also well documented that poverty is a major force in premature deaths, what will be the true cost of the lock downs in years to come?
 
GazC_MFC said:
You can expect to excess deaths for the next 3 week because people are dying from covid again
Click to expand...

that is guaranteed because deaths rise in the winter months every year, what I was getting at is how many of these deaths are from covid19 as cause the of death rather than people dying with covid19, these figures do not seem to exist, without knowing the true figure how can it be possible to make the correct decision tackling covid19, I do acknowledge covid is real, people are dying of covid and with covid, governments are worried as are we but what can of worms lies ahead? will we look back and think the course of action being taken now was completely wrong, if there is that possibility then surely discussing this now and finding 100% accurate data is imperative.
 
Fridgeman said:
that is guaranteed because deaths rise in the winter months every year, what I was getting at is how many of these deaths are from covid19 as cause the of death rather than people dying with covid19, these figures do not seem to exist, without knowing the true figure how can it be possible to make the correct decision tackling covid19, I do acknowledge covid is real, people are dying of covid and with covid, governments are worried as are we but what can of worms lies ahead? will we look back and think the course of action being taken now was completely wrong, if there is that possibility then surely discussing this now and finding 100% accurate data is imperative.
Click to expand...
Excess deaths over the 5 year average for the corresponding weeks will happen over the next 3 weeks.

it’s comparing apples with apples
 
Fridgeman said:
People dying from flu down 25% since January
Click to expand...

Surely that makes sense? We've all put a lot of effort this year in to social distancing and not spreading infections that we never have otherwise? It'd make sense that this would mean less spreading of other infections besides Covid.
 
3. Death occurrences in 2020 and five-year averages for influenza and pneumonia

Figure 2: In 2020 deaths due to influenza and pneumonia were consistently lower than the five-year average in all months from January to August
Number of deaths due to influenza and pneumonia by month of occurrence, England and Wales, occurring between 1 January and 31 August 2020 and registered by 5 September 2020

Sorry I could not attach the graph but here are some figures[5 year average first then 2020 totals]
january 4218-3067
febuary 3150-2244
march 2911-2595
april 2355-1933
may1995-1235
june1731-1045
july1641-966
augest 1561-928

it would seem that some of these deaths are being recorded as covid19 because they had the virus when they died, I could be wrong but because deaths are recorded with covid it seems valid.

stats from ONS
 
Fridgeman said:
3. Death occurrences in 2020 and five-year averages for influenza and pneumonia

Figure 2: In 2020 deaths due to influenza and pneumonia were consistently lower than the five-year average in all months from January to August
Number of deaths due to influenza and pneumonia by month of occurrence, England and Wales, occurring between 1 January and 31 August 2020 and registered by 5 September 2020

Sorry I could not attach the graph but here are some figures[5 year average first then 2020 totals]
january 4218-3067
febuary 3150-2244
march 2911-2595
april 2355-1933
may1995-1235
june1731-1045
july1641-966
augest 1561-928

it would seem that some of these deaths are being recorded as covid19 because they had the virus when they died, I could be wrong but because deaths are recorded with covid it seems valid.

stats from ONS
Click to expand...
You are wrong. Read the ONS notes.
 
SuperStu said:
Surely that makes sense? We've all put a lot of effort this year in to social distancing and not spreading infections that we never have otherwise? It'd make sense that this would mean less spreading of other infections besides Covid.
Click to expand...
very good point
 
bear66 said:
You are wrong. Read the ONS notes.
Click to expand...
I did, I know where you coming from but these figures are correct, they do explain things in a different way, I am not saying I am right, I am saying I am worried and confused and its very easy to direct information in the way you see most fit, thats the bit that worries me most, Superstu give a very good reason for cases reducing this year in the post above, I totally take this on board hence my reply to him.

I am not on a wind up here and don't want to offend.
 
Hi Matt, death rates for covid are recorded as people dying with covid, not of covid, so what I was questioning here is are the reductions in the death rates of flu etc reducing because some of these deaths were recorded as covid deaths because the virus was present?

I have no idea because covid deaths are measured in the way they are, If you had covid and got run over by a bus you would be included in the covid deaths as I understand it. I could be wrong.

probably wrong after reading the link as regards the bus but flu etc? thanks Matt that link was good information.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top