Well I've long wanted NW to manage our football club

I think when a passionate enthusiast like Erimus writes an OP like that it is clear there are problems.
What on earth Steve Gibson must have thought sat there watching that God only knows.
He lost £31m last season and will lose at least another £30m this season.

And for what?
Watching poor players go through the motions is disappointing enough as a fan, but as the owner what has he got to look forward to?

Some players just want chasing because they are poor players, with poor attitude and they will never be good enough, or care enough. Never mind what they are paid - that is a separate disaster - they need to go.
This is not a summer for tweaking a squad that is just a bit short, just a bit tired, just unlucky with injuries. It is the summer to get rid of the utter dross that fills out our squad.

Dijksteel, Bola, Fry, Hall, Tavernier, Morsy and Watmore are the only players I care about other than youngsters I am disappointed not to have seen more of today.

I do not care if we see no more of Bolasie, Kebano or Mendez Laing, they haven't worked out, but it was worth having a look.

I can't wait to see the back of Assombolonga, Fletcher, Akpom, Saville, Spence, Bettinelli.
I don't think Johnson, Fisher, Coulson, Wing or Browne are good enough.
I think Howson is just about done and I still don't know where McNair plays after 3 years.

You can't move some of this lot still, as nobody will buy Akpom or Saville on their contracts, similarly Howson.
And that is a hell of a lot of recruitment to be done by a recruitment team and process that has been extraordinarily poor for years.

I think some of Warnock's decisions and selections have been very poor - putting Assombolonga on today was crazy - but I don't think anybody could get a tune out of Saville, Spence, loan players who are not committed, players going out of contract who are not good enough and with the best players injured and one or two on their last legs.
 
Further to my previous post, I am still firmly of the belief that the Karanka era was just too much for the club hierarchy and they much prefer a less turbulent environment throughout the club.
Given that it was our most successful recent period you do have to ask if a bit of an edge and turbulence is a good thing.
Aitor was a very demanding and often moody get, Ramirez was your typical, win at all costs South American, Clayton was a master of taking one for the team when it was needed and Grant was just a proper old-school midfielder against who you had to win the physical battle with before being able to outplay him.
Since then we've been reluctant to employ anyone even remotely likely to rock the boat and by God, there have been plenty of times when we've needed it to kick off and get us playing angry.
It's fair to say that we've become a bit of a soft touch since those heady days under Aitor.
 
The forwards are taking a hammering and the finger of blame is pointed at them and that is understandable. They are not great but capable of much better then what we have seen.

In their defence I would NW has handled them very badly.

1. He makes BA captain and then takes it off him
2. He signs Akpom
3. His style of so called football suits none of them.
4. He through them under a bus publicly a few months ago
5. There in the squad there out the squad
7. He tells lies why they are not in squad.
6. They are often brought on as sub with little time left.

Their confidence and belief in the NW must be on the floor, they are leaving and this will probably in the back of their mind worried about picking up an injury. Players who contracts are up and likely to be leaving can still make a contribution right to the end as they have done before and at other clubs but they need to be handled in the right way, we have failed to do that.
 
Dijksteel, Bola, Fry, Hall, Tavernier, Morsy and Watmore, Fisher, Coulson, Browne, Johnson and Spence I would keep. People will be surprised I have said Johnson, Spence and Coulson but this team needs massive pruning and we don't have money, or time to remove everyone people are shouting to get rid of.

Hall is ok but only looks the best of a really bad lot for me. I'm talking about if Fry is out. He would not have started had Ayala been still here and fit???

Bolasie, Kebano or Mendez Laing, they haven't been great for me. Kebano played ok on right today and Bolasie scored but probably hasn't done enough. Mendes Laing a complete waste of time.

Assombolonga, Fletcher will go without doubt. Wouldn't be bothered to lose Akpom or Saville if we can get a fee for them. If not same thing applies as with Johnson, Spence and Coulson we cannot afford to lose everyone and without money coming in.

Bettinelli and Archer can both go for me..

Howson is finished, a bench warmer at best next season for same reasons I mentioned above. McNair has looked bang average in second half of season. Not sure where his best position is or if he even has one.

Too many players need moving on so its a case of pruning/culling the main ones and making and mending with the other members of the squad.
 
indeedido said:
I think when a passionate enthusiast like Erimus writes an OP like that it is clear there are problems.
What on earth Steve Gibson must have thought sat there watching that God only knows.
He lost £31m last season and will lose at least another £30m this season.

And for what?
Watching poor players go through the motions is disappointing enough as a fan, but as the owner what has he got to look forward to?

Some players just want chasing because they are poor players, with poor attitude and they will never be good enough, or care enough. Never mind what they are paid - that is a separate disaster - they need to go.
This is not a summer for tweaking a squad that is just a bit short, just a bit tired, just unlucky with injuries. It is the summer to get rid of the utter dross that fills out our squad.

Dijksteel, Bola, Fry, Hall, Tavernier, Morsy and Watmore are the only players I care about other than youngsters I am disappointed not to have seen more of today.

I do not care if we see no more of Bolasie, Kebano or Mendez Laing, they haven't worked out, but it was worth having a look.

I can't wait to see the back of Assombolonga, Fletcher, Akpom, Saville, Spence, Bettinelli.
I don't think Johnson, Fisher, Coulson, Wing or Browne are good enough.
I think Howson is just about done and I still don't know where McNair plays after 3 years.

You can't move some of this lot still, as nobody will buy Akpom or Saville on their contracts, similarly Howson.
And that is a hell of a lot of recruitment to be done by a recruitment team and process that has been extraordinarily poor for years.

I think some of Warnock's decisions and selections have been very poor - putting Assombolonga on today was crazy - but I don't think anybody could get a tune out of Saville, Spence, loan players who are not committed, players going out of contract who are not good enough and with the best players injured and one or two on their last legs.
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Far better put than my rant indeedido, 100% agree on everything you posted

Sad isn't it really, when you think, we don't have the right to have a winning team or win trophies but, we do have the right to expect our players to put a shift in, players are only human & will have stinkers but not our players, they consistently have stinkers, awful players
I really am disgusted at the way some of the more experienced players have tret our football club over the past few seasons
 
Corco65 said:
The forwards are taking a hammering and the finger of blame is pointed at them and that is understandable. They are not great but capable of much better then what we have seen.

In their defence I would NW has handled them very badly.

1. He makes BA captain and then takes it off him
2. He signs Akpom
3. His style of so called football suits none of them.
4. He through them under a bus publicly a few months ago
5. There in the squad there out the squad
7. He tells lies why they are not in squad.
6. They are often brought on as sub with little time left.

Their confidence and belief in the NW must be on the floor, they are leaving and this will probably in the back of their mind worried about picking up an injury. Players who contracts are up and likely to be leaving can still make a contribution right to the end as they have done before and at other clubs but they need to be handled in the right way, we have failed to do that.
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Good post Corco65, my rant doesn't mean I'm right & others are wrong, my rant is just out of sheer frustration after watching so much dross over the past few seasons & just snapped
 
Priority needs to be two CM. We’re powder puff in the middle of the park. Howson i just cant stand the fawning over him. Hes useless. Saville less said about him the better. Replace the midfied keep Morsy and Wing for rotation, blood in Hackney and we could get away with weaker flanks. Weve never had proper width since Adomah then Traore anyway. Maybe get Reach in on a Free and actually play Coulson where he should be now and then. If NW stays dont give him licence to overhaul the squad. Pick up what we can to muddle through next season, try and ship out Saville, Howson, Akpom and following season when the world hopefully has stabilised, put a real plan in place. Hopefully tho SG will know this isn’t working and that if tgings continue as they are NW will walk which hes got form for. He did a great job last year, bit ive never liked him and wouldn’t be disappointed to see him go
 
Ted_DN38416 said:
Priority needs to be two CM. We’re powder puff in the middle of the park. Howson i just cant stand the fawning over him. Hes useless. Saville less said about him the better. Replace the midfied keep Morsy and Wing for rotation, blood in Hackney and we could get away with weaker flanks. Weve never had proper width since Adomah then Traore anyway. Maybe get Reach in on a Free and actually play Coulson where he should be now and then. If NW stays dont give him licence to overhaul the squad. Pick up what we can to muddle through next season, try and ship out Saville, Howson, Akpom and following season when the world hopefully has stabilised, put a real plan in place. Hopefully tho SG will know this isn’t working and that if tgings continue as they are NW will walk which hes got form for. He did a great job last year, bit ive never liked him and wouldn’t be disappointed to see him go
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To quote: Warnock said: “Are they Premier League quality? Absolutely.
“You might think I’ve been drinking but you won’t get much better than Howson in the Premier League at the minute.”
 
bear66 said:
To quote: Warnock said: “Are they Premier League quality? Absolutely.
“You might think I’ve been drinking but you won’t get much better than Howson in the Premier League at the minute.”
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As he often does, he’s talking a load of sh1t
 
What I find incredible is that Akpom was Warnock's No. 1 target.
We spent decent money on him relatively speaking.

Another mystery is why Howson has been given another 1 year contract extension.
 
I think we have a decent enough first 11 , apart from striker and keeper, to compete with anybody in the division. That was the case for the first half of the season. Then we lose Tav, Fry, Dijksteel, Fletcher again and our wafer thin squad is exposed.
Don’t really think there is much more to it than that.
Early season, I thought we may have had a shout at a play off spot but it would be injury dependent. So it proved, really.
Poor though Fletcher is, I’m sure he’d have bagged more than double what Britt and Akpom did combined, had he been fit throughout too.

All in all mid table robably about right given the thin squad. Shame to have lost 3 of our best players (Fry, Tav, Dijksteel) for so long but that’s football and that did for us.
ho hum.
 
Erimus74 said:
Good post Corco65, my rant doesn't mean I'm right & others are wrong, my rant is just out of sheer frustration after watching so much dross over the past few seasons & just snapped
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It didn't come across as a rant Erimus74 and you are qualified more than most to voice your views. 👍
 
Corco65 said:
The forwards are taking a hammering and the finger of blame is pointed at them and that is understandable. They are not great but capable of much better then what we have seen.

In their defence I would NW has handled them very badly.

1. He makes BA captain and then takes it off him
2. He signs Akpom
3. His style of so called football suits none of them.
4. He through them under a bus publicly a few months ago
5. There in the squad there out the squad
7. He tells lies why they are not in squad.
6. They are often brought on as sub with little time left.

Their confidence and belief in the NW must be on the floor, they are leaving and this will probably in the back of their mind worried about picking up an injury. Players who contracts are up and likely to be leaving can still make a contribution right to the end as they have done before and at other clubs but they need to be handled in the right way, we have failed to do that.
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Lets look at it this way:

Since 2017 when Assombalonga arrived - he has played under four different Managers, each with their own style and experience.
Hes been unable to show he is anything more than average to any of those Managers.
He is not worth what we paid for him and thankfully he will very soon be history.

Likewise Saville and Fletcher.

Neither have been consistent, no matter what system, Manager or style.
They are both average players - because they show signs of brilliance then spend the next three games making mistakes, missing the target, missing the ball or just plain missing.

Those three between them reportedly cost us not much short of 30,000,000 M`s PLUS WAGES!!
Neil came in and has those three on his plate - because no one will buy them and pay there existing salaries.
Previous Managers imported those players.
Likewise Johnson, who is good in spells but nothing more than average.
Neil has been left with him.

Hes taken Bola, Anfernee, Brownie - and helped nurture them into vital cogs in the team, but two of those are out with injury.

Hes done well to revitalise and enrgise Paddy McNair and also helped Dael Fry to up his game and mature as a player - a key player. Again he is out injured.

Tav has become a man and is vital to the team - but is out injured.

Betinelli and Ackpom are two big disappointments - but as can be seen above - Neil has taken on other managers misfits and failures and done the best any Manager could do with an inconsistent raw material, in these difficult times.

Grant Hall has spent a chunk of the season out injured - but he is coming back strong and looking good for next season.

Morsy has been worth his salt - but is working alongside a makeshift midfield.

Bolasie has been in the shed at Everton and has shown real determination, but clearly not back to his best - yet.

Kebano is a good player, but he is only as consistent as those around him.

Watmore has been a revelation and has tried and tried to win games when the rest stand and watch. Neil has done a brilliant job with Duncan.

We have to be pragmatic and realistic about our expectations.

Accusing Neil of "lies" is unwise and an insult to him - hes doing his best with a raw, poor quality product. If a player is out - it may be for personal as well as professional reasons. We have no right to demand information which may be confidential. He may also be protecting his players - tell a Manager who doesnt?

Anyone who imagines team - building and managing a disparate group of individuals as "black-and-white" is going to be disappointed.

Managing men is not a game on the X-Box or using a line of statistics to predict how human brains perform.

It takes skill, perception, life experience, professional experience, skill, temperament, intuition and observation: so lets give the man who has the reigns, the space and opportunity to ship out the baggage and start in ernest to rebuild for next season. (y)


 
r00fie1 said:
Lets look at it this way:

Since 2017 when Assombalonga arrived - he has played under four different Managers, each with their own style and experience.
Hes been unable to show he is anything more than average to any of those Managers.
He is not worth what we paid for him and thankfully he will very soon be history.

Likewise Saville and Fletcher.

Neither have been consistent, no matter what system, Manager or style.
They are both average players - because they show signs of brilliance then spend the next three games making mistakes, missing the target, missing the ball or just plain missing.

Those three between them reportedly cost us not much short of 30,000,000 M`s PLUS WAGES!!
Neil came in and has those three on his plate - because no one will buy them and pay there existing salaries.
Previous Managers imported those players.
Likewise Johnson, who is good in spells but nothing more than average.
Neil has been left with him.

Hes taken Bola, Anfernee, Brownie - and helped nurture them into vital cogs in the team, but two of those are out with injury.

Hes done well to revitalise and enrgise Paddy McNair and also helped Dael Fry to up his game and mature as a player - a key player. Again he is out injured.

Tav has become a man and is vital to the team - but is out injured.

Betinelli and Ackpom are two big disappointments - but as can be seen above - Neil has taken on other managers misfits and failures and done the best any Manager could do with an inconsistent raw material, in these difficult times.

Grant Hall has spent a chunk of the season out injured - but he is coming back strong and looking good for next season.

Morsy has been worth his salt - but is working alongside a makeshift midfield.

Bolasie has been in the shed at Everton and has shown real determination, but clearly not back to his best - yet.

Kebano is a good player, but he is only as consistent as those around him.

Watmore has been a revelation and has tried and tried to win games when the rest stand and watch. Neil has done a brilliant job with Duncan.

We have to be pragmatic and realistic about our expectations.

Accusing Neil of "lies" is unwise and an insult to him - hes doing his best with a raw, poor quality product. If a player is out - it may be for personal as well as professional reasons. We have no right to demand information which may be confidential. He may also be protecting his players - tell a Manager who doesnt?

Anyone who imagines team - building and managing a disparate group of individuals as "black-and-white" is going to be disappointed.

Managing men is not a game on the X-Box or using a line of statistics to predict how human brains perform.

It takes skill, perception, life experience, professional experience, skill, temperament, intuition and observation: so lets give the man who has the reigns, the space and opportunity to ship out the baggage and start in ernest to rebuild for next season. (y)
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I agree it takes all those things to manage people and what I am saying for a number of them I think he has got it wrong, I don't know the reality just like you, it's just my thoughts from what has unfolded.

Johnson has had good spells but has been dropped during them so he can't continue to have them.

BA might not have been dynamic but his goal scoring record for us is at least average despite all those changes of managers.

You can't blame the players for the wagers or transfer fees the club decided that pay.

He made an excuse why BA being when was not in the squad, the following day BA posted a telling tweet.

You obviously believe in what NW does and you like his handling of the players and his approach to football, I don't.

This is NW team, he has brought a lot of them, left a number out,, he picks team, he tells them how he wants then to play, he owns the results good or bad, I'm not saying he should go, but I just don't believe he is absolved of responsibility for what is happening whilst people solely lay the blame at the door of the players, let's see what happens. 👍
 
Corco65 said:
I agree it takes all those things to manage people and what I am saying for a number of them I think he has got it wrong, I don't know the reality just like you, it's just my thoughts from what has unfolded.

Johnson has had good spells but has been dropped during them so he can't continue to have them.

BA might not have been dynamic but his goal scoring record for us is at least average despite all those changes of managers.

You can't blame the players for the wagers or transfer fees the club decided that pay.

He made an excuse why BA being when was not in the squad, the following day BA posted a telling tweet.

You obviously believe in what NW does and you like his handling of the players and his approach to football, I don't.

This is NW team, he has brought a lot of them, left a number out,, he picks team, he tells them how he wants then to play, he owns the results good or bad, I'm not saying he should go, but I just don't believe he is absolved of responsibility for what is happening whilst people solely lay the blame at the door of the players, let's see what happens. 👍
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Nobody is "blaming" players for wages etc, but we didnt pay out for a Rolls Royce to be delivered a Reliant Robin. 100K for George Friend looks like pennies from heaven in comparison.

Lets focus on the big picture and recognise that half the old guard left last season in one go.

Neil had no time and no money to rebuild.

Boro didnt get their first choice imports - but thats football!

We`ve had a season condensed into little more than 70% of the usual season - with two games a week on average - with a disjointed squad - some seeing out their time and not adding one drop of sweat to the team.

Its not a matter of "like" or "blame" or "excuse".

The same players who dont perform when they are picked, then get dropped - then dont perform when they are picked = are inconsistent bang average. You can only pick a donkey if all you have is donkeys!

"Which donkey shall we pick today Neil?"
"I know. Lets pick the one with the straw hat and the one that keeps running backwards".

Is it every Managers fault that Brit has never performed consistently?
Same with Fletcher? Saville?

Its a partnership, and too many of our players have had more than their fair share.
We`l see.
 
Our only good players are Bola, Fry Hall Dijksteel Mcnair Watmore Tav and then Kebano Bolasie. The rest are trash. My worry is bola Dijksteel get scared nervous when fans return
 
I honestly don’t get the fuss but we’ve been here before.

I said top 10 this season and still think we will.

Top 6 next.

Worst Boro team? It’s not even as bad as last season, or the last Mowbray season, or the Strachan era.
 
atypical_boro said:
I honestly don’t get the fuss but we’ve been here before.

I said top 10 this season and still think we will.

Top 6 next.

Worst Boro team? It’s not even as bad as last season, or the last Mowbray season, or the Strachan era.
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That's your opinion, I did remark that it's the worst team I've seen in my time, my opinion & I stick with that
We can't all be the of the same opinion
 
Erimus74 said:
That's your opinion, I did remark that it's the worst team I've seen in my time, my opinion & I stick with that
We can't all be the of the same opinion
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Fine, I find it incredible that that’s your opinion, but fair enough it is of course your opinion.
 
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