Anton_Berg
Well-known member
Best players or best player?
We are not a well run club
- Thread starter Borokian1876
- Start date
coluka
Well-known member
Firstly all of those players that went back, were sold to a promoted team so were all available and affordable and i believe would have returned if we had been. We could have improved them for our benefit, but we failed, largely due to injuries imho. You are correct the reality is we weren't able to stay the distance, we failed and had to go again. Chuba, who was contracted, chose not to stay with us in any event, so contracted players guarantees nothing either. (He has my respect, just like the loanees do, I wish them all continued personal success).Morning flower.
Never mind Hire Purchase [we both remember that]
Those players were loaned to us and were going back to their parent clubs.
Whether or not we went up, what if, what if......we didnt and they went back to their owners - to whom they were under contract.
You cant build for tomorrow on what we had yesterday.
Carrick had this to say on Thursday:-
[Q from reporter]. After losing in the play-offs, did Carrick realise he had “a hell of a job” keeping the three loanees plus Chuba. Was Carrick “almost resigned immediately to losing them all?
I`m not saying “resigned”. This is about more the reality of what that is in the loans: how many we had and how important they ended up being how well they did and improved. They`ve all gone on, kind of up a level if you like. Jumping up a level in terms of their career...in terms of different leagues. From that side of things its a real positive. We`re capable of helping players and developing players, pushing them on and getting the best out of them. Now its about doing exactly the same with the group we`ve got now. We don’t [want to] lose them and make them better for someone else. That goes without saying and we don’t intend to do that. But, with the loans especially, that can be a bit of an issue. I feel we`ve got to wait to...enhance our chances this year and maybe going into next year. Thinking ahead with the bigger picture and thats why I`m calmer with how the season`s started.
I`m not knocking the loan players at all. If you have quite a lot that you rely on or are a big part of your team, then at some point, you`ve got to change your team a little bit and that brings its challenges. [That is] fine and you can adapt and deal with it. We`re just looking ahead a littler more, the bigger picture and trying to make that foundation of the group really strong.
The best way to win promotion is through the quality in your team as a whole being generally better than most of the league. Burnley had a lot of loans too, they loaned quality. Granted they bought well too and had money. Loans can and should be the icing on the cake, A balance is needed, but if you can not afford quality you struggle until you eventually have a senior squad that does what you want it to, timescale is anyones guess though. Buying players as we know is fraught with big dangers too. Moneyball is something lower league teams are dabbling in with varying degrees of success and offers no certainty of improvement as we currently are witnessing. Will it eventually bear fruit, maybe maybe not.
Loans can bring in immediate improvement. The aim is to get to the PL as soon as possible. You achieve that by bringing in the best you can afford, Loans are integral to achieving bringing quality in at more affordable cost. You can then convert their loan to asset thereafter, Archer, Ramsey and Giles are now all assets to other teams than their parent clubs at that time it can be done quicker and converted to asset too. I appreciate what the club are trying to achieve and what they are doing, but without any feeling of knowing they will achieve that in the medium term. It really is a big week and a huge test of the clubs recruitment yet again
coluka
Well-known member
Suggesting I am the ‘Greatest Of All Time’ is appreciated but I can’t accept your praise as it isn’t true by any metric, but thanks anyway
Glover_elbow
Well-known member
Ive seen what we doing newy replacing chuba with rodgers is just like replacing luke young with justin hoyte and we all know how that turned out.
No but selling your main man because he's nearly out of contract does.
What should the club have done?
coluka
Well-known member
Absolutely, Carrick must be retained no matter what for me, managers in some cases deserved the sack, one or two less so imho. This Head Coach needs time given the situation we are in and direction Gibson is taking the club. I don’t agree about the comments about loans, but there is nowt I can do about it. The team will have me cheering on win, lose or draw during games, but I will always call things as I see them afterwards as IIts worth reflecting: since Karanka was appointed 10 years ago - if we include "Caretaker"(s) - we`ve had 10 [ten] Managers in 10 years.
Even if we ignore Liddle, Aggy and Leo, its still 7 [seven] Managers in 10 years!
View attachment 62688
Boro and want their success always and asap.
aytonstrummer
Well-known member
Trouble is Gibbo has turned into Arthur Daley
JM14
Well-known member
7 managers who all wanted different playing squads, so essentially a full rebuild almost every year. No surprise we are struggling so muchIts worth reflecting: since Karanka was appointed 10 years ago - if we include "Caretaker"(s) - we`ve had 10 [ten] Managers in 10 years.
Even if we ignore Liddle, Aggy and Leo, its still 7 [seven] Managers in 10 years!
View attachment 62688
Would you have said that before the Marseille game last year?
Bernieslavenschin
Well-known member
Financially stable, well treated staff and fans, trustworthy owner/s who act with integrity, well maintained facilities, positive reputation in the area and with visiting fans.
Now not necessarily saying that's us, but I'd give that as a rough definition.
Now not necessarily saying that's us, but I'd give that as a rough definition.
Glover_elbow
Well-known member
Well they are both tories and ive never seen gibsons her indoors either
sweet_left_foot
Well-known member
I'd add a strong academy, developing great talent to use or sell at a profit.
newyddion
Well-known member
What is we replace Chuba with Alex Pritchard and Ross Stewart?
coluka
Well-known member
I dug this out from a learning program I undertook, slightly tweaked it too.
A Board that is well respected in the community it operates, provides for its customers and who are aware of and fulfilling their role, including setting goals and annually evaluating the performance of its employees from top to bottom and setting metrics by which to assess the clubs impact and achievements against desired outcomes.
Mission, Vision and Values of which everyone is aware, and upholding or moving toward. Ensure the programs tie to missions. Ensure people know the mission and the values. Ensure there‘s a vision and a clear path to reach it. Publish it so that customers are understanding of it and that there’s a mechanism for customer evaluation and feedback.
A Strategic Plan that lays out the path forward. Ensure it include timelines, measurements and assignments. A plan that doesn’t have each of them is really just a wish list.
Leadership – A board who have the passion, judgment, skills, training and experience to lead, and is known and respected in the community. Remember, if you have no critics you have had no successes. The leaders job is a tough one and not everyone is going to love them, but if he or she communicates the vision and the path, people will follow, providing it is well thought through, believable, achievable and carried out. Tweaking as required from time to time as necessary and re-published.
Recruitment and retention is key to any club. Staff, including players who have a passion for the club’s ambitions, the appropriate quality and technical experience, skills, training, and where relevant education for their field and their role. They also have to be on the team whatever role and moving the club forward. It is not enough to only be good at your job. To ensure the right people in the right positions the club need staff and players to be both good at their job and understand the role they play within the club and how they impact the whole ethos of the club. This is the most vital area to get right to achieve success.
Organisational Culture and values within the club that supports, empowers and also holds people within the club accountable, it must deliver for all customers new and old and be welcoming for all in the community it may reach and serve.
Systems including infrastructure, financial processes, policies, plans and procedures that reflect the club’s values; provide boundaries, training and growth opportunities for all; and reflect best practices and appropriate standards.
Mission, Vision and Values that links to outcomes, meets goals, measures impact and moves the need for changes from within. None of the above will matter if the set up is mediocre. The understanding and its delivery must be excellent to achieve success.
A facility that inspires hope trust and belief from within as well as to external associates and customers, rather than exhaustion, worry, fear and concern. We have all been to games where we feel uninspired the minute we walk through the turnstile. It’s hard to be inspired or inspire others when the things don’t sit right, performance is poor, results aren’t delivered as expected, or you hear Gestede on the teamsheet.
Technology that supports the work of the club and meets all its needs efficiently and effectively. A must is an informative website and a reasonably professional email and phone system for both internal and external contact that meets the needs of the club and its customers.
Hope that helps you out Muttley
newyddion
Well-known member
A lot of our fans seem to have turned into Geordies!
Zoophonic
Well-known member
Have you substituted the word Company with Club there? It talks about a "board". It also talks about customers and clubs - do they have "customers"? If you view a Football Club as a business and has a relationship with its supporters as would a company with its customers then it would be very apposite. I would argue that it isn't quite that and that we view the relationship more than we would as if we say bought Apple products or used a particular energy company.I dug this out from a learning program I undertook, slightly tweaked it too.
A Board that is well respected in the community it operates, provides for its customers and who are aware of and fulfilling their role, including setting goals and annually evaluating the performance of its employees from top to bottom and setting metrics by which to assess the clubs impact and achievements against desired outcomes.
Mission, Vision and Values of which everyone is aware, and upholding or moving toward. Ensure the programs tie to missions. Ensure people know the mission and the values. Ensure there‘s a vision and a clear path to reach it. Publish it so that customers are understanding of it and that there’s a mechanism for customer evaluation and feedback.
A Strategic Plan that lays out the path forward. Ensure it include timelines, measurements and assignments. A plan that doesn’t have each of them is really just a wish list.
Leadership – A board who have the passion, judgment, skills, training and experience to lead, and is known and respected in the community. Remember, if you have no critics you have had no successes. The leaders job is a tough one and not everyone is going to love them, but if he or she communicates the vision and the path, people will follow, providing it is well thought through, believable, achievable and carried out. Tweaking as required from time to time as necessary and re-published.
Recruitment and retention is key to any club. Staff, including players who have a passion for the club’s ambitions, the appropriate quality and technical experience, skills, training, and where relevant education for their field and their role. They also have to be on the team whatever role and moving the club forward. It is not enough to only be good at your job. To ensure the right people in the right positions the club need staff and players to be both good at their job and understand the role they play within the club and how they impact the whole ethos of the club. This is the most vital area to get right to achieve success.
Organisational Culture and values within the club that supports, empowers and also holds people within the club accountable, it must deliver for all customers new and old and be welcoming for all in the community it may reach and serve.
Systems including infrastructure, financial processes, policies, plans and procedures that reflect the club’s values; provide boundaries, training and growth opportunities for all; and reflect best practices and appropriate standards.
Mission, Vision and Values that links to outcomes, meets goals, measures impact and moves the need for changes from within. None of the above will matter if the set up is mediocre. The understanding and its delivery must be excellent to achieve success.
A facility that inspires hope trust and belief from within as well as to external associates and customers, rather than exhaustion, worry, fear and concern. We have all been to games where we feel uninspired the minute we walk through the turnstile. It’s hard to be inspired or inspire others when the things don’t sit right, performance is poor, results aren’t delivered as expected, or you hear Gestede on the teamsheet.
Technology that supports the work of the club and meets all its needs efficiently and effectively. A must is an informative website and a reasonably professional email and phone system for both internal and external contact that meets the needs of the club and its customers.
Hope that helps you out Muttley
coluka
Well-known member
The club has a board, a CEO, Chairman, non exec directors. It is an organisation. I am a customer of the club, anyone buying anything, ticket, pie, pint, replica shirt is a customer. People are fans but not necessarily customers too, equally, you can be a customer and fan obviously.
Maybe I should have tried Chat gpt
