Scrote
Well-known member
Do you have any evidence for that? What metrics are being used and who is providing the data?
VAR in the championship
- Thread starter Ayresome_park
- Start date
spanishman
Well-known member
"And the facts appear to back him up. According to premierleague.com before VAR was introduced the percentage of correct key match decisions stood at 82 percent. 12 months later with VAR in use for the 2109/20 season, it rose to 94 percent."
VAR: Has it improved football or has it made it worse?
VAR is no longer a new concept but four years after its introduction into European football, is it actually serving its purpose?
www.euronews.com
NYboro
Well-known member
..and how much time wasted while they pored over those decisions with the fans in the ground clueless about what's happening? Get rid of it!
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
I don’t recall the incident, so I can’t comment on the specific decision, but it is a stubbornly persistent but incorrect misconception that the ball needs to be played forward for an offside. All that is required is that the player is in front of the ball when the teammate plays it, and that he then interferes.
Under the current narrow definition of interfering, it’s difficult for that to happen unless the ball is played forwards towards him but there was certainly an incident in a Spurs European game earlier in the season that provided an example.
spanishman
Well-known member
An average of 50 seconds a decision according to the article I quoted.
I have seen it happening live for 2 years now. In both La Liga 2 and La Liga.
I feel it is worth the wait for more correct decisions.
I think we will just have to agree to differ.
NYboro
Well-known member
Yes - I think I'll be going to lower league football once Boro have to suffer VAR.
davidmills
Well-known member
The ball was deliberately kicked by a Boro player so the Burnley player couldn't be offside
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
This gets said a lot. It’s complete rubbish. The word “level” is nowhere in Law 11 and never has been. Nor has it appeared in a IFAB guideline. Law 11 creates a binary state. Nearer or not nearer.
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
Sorry, misread your first comment. You’re right if it was Smith of course.
Scrote
Well-known member
So the people who introduced VAR are telling us that VAR is better?"And the facts appear to back him up. According to premierleague.com before VAR was introduced the percentage of correct key match decisions stood at 82 percent. 12 months later with VAR in use for the 2109/20 season, it rose to 94 percent."
VAR: Has it improved football or has it made it worse?
VAR is no longer a new concept but four years after its introduction into European football, is it actually serving its purpose?
How is a key match decision defined?
Has VAR improved the game?*
How many incidents that should have resulted in a different outcome have not been subject to VAR because the wrong decision (e.g. offside) was made prior to VAR being involved (I've seen quite a few).
How many decisions have been deemed to be called correctly by the referee when it comes down to "clear and obvious" and how pundit time and how many column inches have resulted?
If we've introduced something that negatively impacts on the game as much as VAR does then I'd expect decisions to be correct. As it is we have all the negatives with only some of the positives. It's a farce.
*in my opinion, definitely not
This is because a lot of correct decisions are made, and made quickly, but the ones that are left are the ones that need the most time to get the correct decision (or occasionally get the wrong decision). You are now only concentrating on the most difficult decisions to get correct and ignoring all the good ones.
The best example being that we now don't get goals incorrectly ruled out for being offside when the player was on. Linesmen don't flag if there's any doubt so play goes on more which means there is no chance to incorrectly rule a goal out for offside. It results in more goals being scored but that also means more goals are ruled out because the close offsides are played on as well. However, they are ruled out correctly. Without VAR linesmen let loads of goals go when they are actually offside and they disallow some that are actually onside. You can argue about the speed the decision is made and how marginal those decisions are but they are almost always correct. In time these decisions will be made by AI and will be instantaneous so those complaints will disappear.
BobendBert
Well-known member
There is an argument that says we need VAR more in the lower divisions because generally we have poorer officials.
Also - has anyone seen the Burnley penalty shout shortly after their first goal? Anything in it?
Also - has anyone seen the Burnley penalty shout shortly after their first goal? Anything in it?
Scrote
Well-known member
But we still get linesmen flagging early and being wrong but the game isn't amended in any way to make up for it. You also have the problem of the rules being changed to the point that a defensive setup with a high line is more or less defunct. If the introduction of technology prevents certain systems then the technology shouldn't be introduced until those problems have been addressed.
There are also a bunch of other things that need to be added to VARs repertoire if we're serious about getting decisions correct (and therefore getting the correct outcome for the match). Sheff Wed saved a penalty last week and the defender that cleared the ball was two yards inside the area when the kick was retaken. Because of VAR, the refs no longer bother with the encroachment rule so despite VAR not being involved in that particular match, the result was potentially altered (the retake might have been saved/cleared legitimately) by the rule changes caused by VAR.
We don't get any less controversy due to VAR (as we'd put pundits out of a job) so what problem is it solving? You either want correct decisions or you don't. Not just a marginal increase in correctness for the small percentage of calls that get scrutinised.
spanishman
Well-known member
On your first point. In the matches I watch live no linesmen signal their decisions early. Play continues for a while before any flag is raised.
NYboro
Well-known member
I would find that incredibly frustrating.
Scrote
Well-known member
It does happen though. I've seen it a dozen times or more - usually around the half-way line and rarely discussed.
There is also the problem of other incidents/injuries occurring while the linesman is waiting to raise his flag when he thinks it might be offside. I just don't think we get enough positives from VAR to offset the negatives at the moment.
If the technology improves to guarantee 94% of decisions are made correctly across the full game (foul throws, ffs!) then we could revisit it...
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
Seems to me that at least in relation to offside though the controversy is different. We used to have loads that were plain wrong. Factually wrong on offside position. Sometimes by a couple of yards. Still do in the Championship. Most of the controversy in Prem games I have watched this season has been either over the laws being so narrow now over interfering (like the Rashford one) or over them being “too correct” (it was only his foot etc). I’m struggling to remember any except that one at Brentford where VAR got the position question simply wrong by drawing the line in the wrong place.
The automated World Cup technology is better than the Prem uses too and has the potential to be essentially instantaneous once they decide they trust it, so for the offside position part of the judgement it’s only going to get more reliable and faster as it takes the last human element out.
theredrooster
Well-known member
I thought he was inconsistent, blowing for soft 'fouls' with minimal contact and letting much stronger challenges go, then reversing that randomly during the game. I thought it meant the players didn't know what they could and couldn't get away with. If you know the ref is either being assertive or letting the game flow you can react accordingly but I thought he was so inconsistent (for both sides) the players didn't know how to play it.
I also agree with @dsr-burnley, first goal was offside but it's not the type of goal you want to see chalked off as it was marginal (although I would have gladly have seen it not given at the time).
Ayresome_park
Well-known member
Im not against this either but the only issue in all due respect to the lower leagues, it's alot more physical and even though there's some good teams who play football, it's less skill and more rough and ready, there could be a VAR check every 5 minutes
.The_Big_Woodowski
Well-known member
Not read through this whole thread and for me before opened it VAR is a BIG NO.
never wanted it , don’t like it and think the whole system is a joke. For multitude of reasons won’t go in to now.
Halfway through tonight’s recording of MOTD and Spuds game got 4 that ave been so bad after eat review and another 2/3 in Geordie game makes the whole thing worse than I imagined it would be before it was implemented.
So a big big no from me..
never wanted it , don’t like it and think the whole system is a joke. For multitude of reasons won’t go in to now.
Halfway through tonight’s recording of MOTD and Spuds game got 4 that ave been so bad after eat review and another 2/3 in Geordie game makes the whole thing worse than I imagined it would be before it was implemented.
So a big big no from me..