Vaccine Passports

SmallTown said:
The freedom of choice argument is a bizarre one. What if we were allowed to drive 70mph past a school? I demand my freedom of choice to do that. So what if I risk the lives of children? I should be free to choose
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Again if that is the level of debate you are going to engage in is a waste of my time.
 
Laughing said:
Again if that is the level of debate you are going to engage in is a waste of my time.
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Yet you saw fit to respond. That is interesting. And the point still stands. Freedom of choice is fine. Unless said "choice" is risking public health. Then it needs to be controlled
 
SmallTown said:
Yet you saw fit to respond. That is interesting. And the point still stands. Freedom of choice is fine. Unless said "choice" is risking public health. Then it needs to be controlled
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Again no reference to the Israel report. And your point is actually ridiculous slowing down doesn't kill you ever, taking a vaccination might, but you knew that our at least I hope you did.
 
Bloody hell this is still going on? There is no counter argument here. Get the vaccine or don’t. That’s your choice. If you don’t though then your freedoms should be restricted. Simple.

If you think the vaccine is dangerous or a material risk, or a greater risk than catching the virus again that’s cool. You’re wrong of course but there is no crime in being wrong. Don’t have the vaccine. Nobody is forcing you. But there should be consequences to that choice for your own good and everyone else’s good.

Driving is dangerous. You might get hurt whilst driving. Medical evidence provides that drinking under the influence of alcohol is far, far more dangerous for the driver and every other road user. There are therefore laws restricting your freedom to do so for your own protection and the protection of others.

If you argue that you are a better driver after a few bevvies and that driving sober is actually more dangerous then you’re obviously wrong and so if you get behind the wheel drunk your licence will be taken off you and you won’t be allowed to drive again for a while. Consequences.

Smoking is dangerous. Passive smoking is dangerous. You’re free to exercise your freedom to smoke except in confined spaces with other people. Why? Because your choice damages their health. So there are restrictions to your freedom to protect the rest of us.
 
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You are Absolutely right Adi have it or don't. The bit where you are wrong is the restrictions. Businesses, generally, won't impose them. It's a poor business model. The government won't impose them because business owners fund them.
 
Laughing said:
You are Absolutely right Adi have it or don't. The bit where you are wrong is the restrictions. Businesses, generally, won't impose them. It's a poor business model. The government won't impose them because business owners fund them.
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Again, I’m not predicting what may or may not happen (and I disagree with you on that) I’m simply voicing what I think should happen. And I am certain I’m not wrong about that.
 
Laughing said:
Again no reference to the Israel report. And your point is actually ridiculous slowing down doesn't kill you ever, taking a vaccination might, but you knew that our at least I hope you did.
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Actually if you're in a car crash, it's the slowing down that does kill you
 
Adi_Dem said:
Bloody hell this is still going on? There is no counter argument here. Get the vaccine or don’t. That’s your choice. If you don’t though then your freedoms should be restricted. Simple.

If you think the vaccine is dangerous or a material risk, or a greater risk than catching the virus again that’s cool. You’re wrong of course but there is no crime in being wrong. Don’t have the vaccine. Nobody is forcing you. But there should be consequences to that choice for your own good and everyone else’s good.

Driving is dangerous. You might get hurt whilst driving. Medical evidence provides that drinking under the influence of alcohol is far, far more dangerous for the driver and every other road user. There are therefore laws restricting your freedom to do so for your own protection and the protection of others.

If you argue that you are a better driver after a few bevvies and that driving sober is actually more dangerous then you’re obviously wrong and so if you get behind the wheel drunk your licence will be taken off you and you won’t be allowed to drive again for a while. Consequences.

Smoking is dangerous. Passive smoking is dangerous. You’re free to exercise your freedom to smoke except in confined spaces with other people. Why? Because your choice damages their health. So there are restrictions to your freedom to protect the rest of us.
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Except if you smoke and drink you can still get treatment on the NHS.

There are some on this forum who are wanting access to the NHS to be denied for people who don't want the vaccine. Crazy.
 
Laughing said:
I notice you didn't respond to my post about the Israeli report.

It suggests that if your not vulnerable it's better for everyone to catch and recover. It certainly calls into question vaccinating kids.

In any event i have no problem with people presenting facts, such as they are. Its the level of vitriol. And using the science argument when it is always, with a relatively new virus and treatment, subject to change. Science is presented as fact to win an argument, that's not debate.
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Truth is I didn’t read your post about ‘the Israeli report’.
 
Randy said:
Except if you smoke and drink you can still get treatment on the NHS.

There are some on this forum who are wanting access to the NHS to be denied for people who don't want the vaccine. Crazy.
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And there are some on this forum who want things to happen that will endanger lives. Also crazy
 
FabioPorkpie said:
I believe in freedom of choice.
But I also believe that choice should come from an informed position and unfortunately anti-vaxxers such as Tony here, do not come from that position, no matter what they think. They’ve been well and truly played.
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please Fabio stop dribbling crap.

I encourage everybody to be vaccinated. I can't be any more pro-vaccine than that.
 
Laughing said:
I notice you didn't respond to my post about the Israeli report.

It suggests that if your not vulnerable it's better for everyone to catch and recover. It certainly calls into question vaccinating kids.

In any event i have no problem with people presenting facts, such as they are. Its the level of vitriol. And using the science argument when it is always, with a relatively new virus and treatment, subject to change. Science is presented as fact to win an argument, that's not debate.
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I presume in your post about ‘the Israeli report’ you mentioned that it is not yet peer reviewed and that they said that infected people are even better protected if they get vaccinated too?
Therefore, if the report stands after peer review, it still says people are better protected against covid when they are vaccinated, whether previously infected or not.
It’s kind of an important point.
Also, there is clearly far more risk associated with gaining immunity ‘naturally’ than through vaccination which is proven to massively reduce the risk should you then be infected following vaccination. And of course, infection isn’t the same thing as illness. Anyway, whatever, back to Saturday night
 
The way I see it, you have a level at which the virus load you get will lead to you becoming infected. That load will be different for everyone.
You also have a level of pre-existing conditions, genetics, natural immunity and such that will dictate how badly you are affected once infected.
I also believe that you can control that viral load exposure by wearing a mask, socially distancing and maintaining good hygiene.
I also believe that vaccination will add to whatever natural immunity you have.
All part of risk minimisation and given the unknown of how you'll be affected by the virus then it's a no-brainer for me.
 
Laughing said:
Freedom of choice without being called a killer
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I'm 53 years of age. I'm a mere pub in the existence of humanity, which is what over 300,000 years old. In those years NO human has ever killed another human by breathing on them until 18 months. Suddenly we (the humans) are now lethal killing rattlesnakes with a venomous deadly spit. For me it's a Hollywood script but for others it's a constructed reality. I've referenced it before that i'd rather trust the science rather than the scientists. That is the true science. I'm as equally scared of what's happening currently and hope that we've seen the back of it, but unfortunately I don't think we have.
 
tonymcandrewshattrick said:
I'm 53 years of age. I'm a mere pub in the existence of humanity, which is what over 300,000 years old. In those years NO human has ever killed another human by breathing on them until 18 months. Suddenly we (the humans) are now lethal killing rattlesnakes with a venomous deadly spit. For me it's a Hollywood script but for others it's a constructed reality. I've referenced it before that i'd rather trust the science rather than the scientists. That is the true science. I'm as equally scared of what's happening currently and hope that we've seen the back of it, but unfortunately I don't think we have.
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Wait, what’s that now?
You aren’t an anti-vaxxer………..you are a covid denier….
Or maybe you just don’t know the first thing about infectious disease….
Or maybe all 3? Yeah, seems like it’s a bit of all 3.
But you think you believe the science ….

Shame you couldn’t be more upfront and disclose how you really felt at the start, so people could have stopped wasting their time engaging with someone who thinks it’s all just a ‘Hollywood script’.

Anyway, best of luck to you, seriously. Stay safe.
 
tonymcandrewshattrick said:
I'm 53 years of age. I'm a mere pub in the existence of humanity, which is what over 300,000 years old. In those years NO human has ever killed another human by breathing on them until 18 months. Suddenly we (the humans) are now lethal killing rattlesnakes with a venomous deadly spit. For me it's a Hollywood script but for others it's a constructed reality. I've referenced it before that i'd rather trust the science rather than the scientists. That is the true science. I'm as equally scared of what's happening currently and hope that we've seen the back of it, but unfortunately I don't think we have.
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**** me.
 
tonymcandrewshattrick said:
I'm 53 years of age. I'm a mere pub in the existence of humanity, which is what over 300,000 years old. In those years NO human has ever killed another human by breathing on them until 18 months. Suddenly we (the humans) are now lethal killing rattlesnakes with a venomous deadly spit. For me it's a Hollywood script but for others it's a constructed reality. I've referenced it before that i'd rather trust the science rather than the scientists. That is the true science. I'm as equally scared of what's happening currently and hope that we've seen the back of it, but unfortunately I don't think we have.
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Screenshot_20210904-232920.jpg
 
FabioPorkpie said:
I presume in your post about ‘the Israeli report’ you mentioned that it is not yet peer reviewed and that they said that infected people are even better protected if they get vaccinated too?
Therefore, if the report stands after peer review, it still says people are better protected against covid when they are vaccinated, whether previously infected or not.
It’s kind of an important point.
Also, there is clearly far more risk associated with gaining immunity ‘naturally’ than through vaccination which is proven to massively reduce the risk should you then be infected following vaccination. And of course, infection isn’t the same thing as illness. Anyway, whatever, back to Saturday night
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Well I wouldn't dream of arguing with you. What I would do is point out the conclusions of the report, which as you say is unreviewed, which a that it may well be better to not vaccinate the folks that are not vulnerable for the greater good. And let's not forget I would not get my 10 year old vaccinated for your ridiculous greater good tell me I am wrong and then tell me this wonderful science that tells me it is for the greater good and... At this point does it matter what I tell you.
 
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