Vaccine passports
- Thread starter Lemmy_kilmister
- Start date
bear66
Well-known member
What people have been coerced into what?
Laughing
Well-known member
I read something similar to this about the latest variants of covid, suggesting that about 85% of folks would either have to be vaccinated or have immunity based on a previous infection, so I think SAGE may have got thier numbers wrong, or it is an older opinion, or, and I dread to consider this, it's spin.
Scrote, your numbers may well be right, it aint gonna happen and we both know that. We let our children starve, people die cold on the streets every winter, don't really care about how many old and young die from flu because it doesn't make the papers.
The only way the government would action a vaccinate all programme every winter is if they could give it to Serco, and there is no way I am letting Serco inject anything in to my arm, I'd rather have Mary from our local bakery do it.
It's not really a prediction though is it? It's a scenario, based on a number of different variables. As the author says, it would only end up being true if all the different values turn out to be what is posited.
Then, as he further points out:
In the end it's just a model and as the old statistical aphorism goes, "All models are wrong, but some are useful."
Randy
Well-known member
Potato potato tomato tomato.
Not really. A model is not a prediction and it's a mis-characterisation to say that it is.
If I could give an analogy, it's like the difference between saying, "The Boro are going to get into the play-offs,” (a prediction) and saying, "If we go on a really good run of form, if we avoid any injuries or suspensions and if all the teams above us start losing games, then we might get into the play-offs," (a scenario that may or may not come true, depending on a number of variables).
Randy
Well-known member
Models have put us into a near year long lockdown. Designed by a man who,
As it turns out, Ferguson hold no formal qualifications at all in the biological sciences – not as a microbiologist, a virologist, nor as an epidemiologist or biological statistician. Instead he received his Bachelor of Arts degree in Physics (1990) from Lady Margaret Hall in Oxford, followed by his Doctorate of Philosophy in theoretical physics (1994) form Linacre College, in Oxford. So claims in the media which repeated describe Ferguson as ‘one of the country’s top epidemiologists’ – are quite misleading. While Ferguson has worked on lots of computer modelling and abstract simulations for various epidemics (and wildly inaccurate on many of them), he is not at all qualified to warrant any authoritative caché in field of biological science. He shouldn’t be anyway, and yet he is. It’s a strange situation to say the least.
Yeah, second thoughts models are daft actually.
Scrote
Well-known member
This is literally the qualification you'd expect for someone doing statistical modelling in biological sciences.
It's meant to be different to a BSc in physics. Who is that quote from? It's wildly misleading (some might think deliberately so).
I'm fairly sure all the sensible people are adamant that herd immunity is virtually impossible for this type of virus without a vaccine (possibly due to the Ro number mentioned above by @bear66 ).
Evil
Well-known member
That's the whole point and people are not even seeing it.
Divided population is an easier one to control.
I'm shocked at how easily people have been scared by a virus that kills barely anyone, how easily people are being fooled by statistics that you can pick apart very quickly and how just 11 months ago, the conspiracy theory nut jobs were talking about vaccine passports and ID's - were labelled nut jobs, but now funnily enough - they were correct. However its absolutely fine to have vaccine passports.
Madness.
I'll just pop this here:
The CDC have been caught out for over reporting Covid deaths by 1600% - Why?
In December - Pfizer jab is 94% effective! Now you've got to have 3rd jab. Why?
Governments WORLDWIDE (not all governments are taking part btw) are all inept? Really? All responding the same way, really? Why?
No small limited company support, in any country? Why?
Belarus PM, African heads of states amongst others saying they were offered bribes to control their population by the IMF. Why? Who funds the IMF?
Why does Dr Fauci have massive shares in the Wuhan lab? Also why does Bill Gates have massive shares in Imperial College, Wuhan lab and coincidentally - Pfizer? Wasn't his Dad a eugenics fan? What about Boris' dad? Didn't he write a book on eugenics, also didn't he write a book on a virus depopulating the planet?
The vaccines, they state that they can't promise that they don't cause infertility in both men and women.
Why are doctors being deplatformed and censored? Actual Doctors and Scientists. Why would they deplatform them? Seems odd to me. People who care for people.
How easy is it to corrupt?
People need to open their eyes a bit more before its too late.
Look up "The Great Reset" and Agenda 2030 or 201 as it was previously known. Then analyse it properly.
CDC over reporting deaths? Really? I thought they'd been criticised for under-reporting the number.
Third Pfizer jab? Not necessary, except if the virus appears in a new mutation.
Governments responding the same way - maybe because it's the best way they can respond?
Limited companies can get support - like loans and furlough.
Imperial College is a private limited company. Bill Gates is not a director. I doubt he has a "huge" shareholding, if any at all.
You can look for conspiracy everywhere but most of the time, it's not there.
Modelling is the science of making inferences about the things we cant see based on the evidence of the things we can see
I struggle with the view that a covid passport is discriminatory in settings such as pubs who already have the right to refuse entry: I need to show proof of age, so I dont mind having to show proof of vaccination
People talk of it limiting our freedom, but for me it is a pathway to regaining some
I struggle with the view that a covid passport is discriminatory in settings such as pubs who already have the right to refuse entry: I need to show proof of age, so I dont mind having to show proof of vaccination
People talk of it limiting our freedom, but for me it is a pathway to regaining some
Laughing
Well-known member
I like your definition of modelling Artie, not sure I agree with it, but it is concise and easy to underrstand.
On the subject of vaccination certificates for entry to venues. I would refuse to go to a venue that discriminated against people who wouldn't or couldn't be vaccinated. We each can make up our own minds and choose accordingly. I am not sure a venue could make the distinction legally, but assuming they can, it is up to each business to make that decision, and for the general public to decide whether they want to attend that particular venue.
And therein lies the point: choice.
I know you and I have discussed this at length and failed to agree, quite reasonably, so I wont push my view further, your points are valid and the discussion worthwhile. I still firmly hold the view that where choice is available, to render it discrimination is an over-statement
the_holgate_roof
Well-known member
There is a big difference between people who can’t have the vaccine and people who won’t have the vaccine, what are the main reasons for people not being able to receive the vaccine, excuse my ignorance on this one. Also the choice lies with the people who won’t take the vaccine but with that choice may come restrictive consequences, that’s just the way it is.
Laughing
Well-known member
There isn't as big a difference as you may think between those who won't and those who can't.
Let me give you an example. Someones religious beliefs forbid vaccination, is that a choice they have made or is it forced on them. That's rhetoric, by the way.
Someone who refuses vaccination because they believe they are being controlled by the government, is that a choice or a mental health issue. Again rhetoric.
Because there are not really any good reasons not to be vaccinated, the choice not to do so isn't, as most would have you believe, a choice at all. It comes from someones belief system. Not a good belief system, in my opinion, but a belief system never the less.
The religious objection is just a tabloid headline. There are hardly any religions that prohibit vaccination, and I doubt there are more than a few hundred people from those religions in the UK.
Randy
Well-known member
If these passports were to become a thing wouldn't they be actually getting sorted right now?
Indoor hospitality is due to reopen again in May but the whole of the population won't have been vaccinated by then. So does that mean the under 30's for example won't be allowed to use hospitality through no fault of their own?
Indoor hospitality is due to reopen again in May but the whole of the population won't have been vaccinated by then. So does that mean the under 30's for example won't be allowed to use hospitality through no fault of their own?
The easiest, and likely, means of covid passport is to use the current NHS app which will document your vaccination (if you have the app and have had a vax, its already there), so effectively it's already in place. Its not going to be an actual hard copy passport.
I'd be quite happy for it just to be middle aged and over in the pub. Makes getting a pint quicker if I don't have to queue behind a group of under 30's all ordering fancy dan cocktails and paying for them individually using their smartwatches which never work so they spend 20 minutes rummaging around in their carrot jeans with a thousand pockets trying to find a card, or heaven forbid, actual money
I'd be quite happy for it just to be middle aged and over in the pub. Makes getting a pint quicker if I don't have to queue behind a group of under 30's all ordering fancy dan cocktails and paying for them individually using their smartwatches which never work so they spend 20 minutes rummaging around in their carrot jeans with a thousand pockets trying to find a card, or heaven forbid, actual money
Laughing
Well-known member
It doesn't matter if there is only 1 person effected by this, the point is valid. And no other issue addressed in your post.
Anywhoo, my feelings on this are well known. Most that can be said has been let's move on to slatting boro, it's more fun and just as (un)productive