UK Timber shortage

BoroMart said:
and was exacerbated by leaving the EU.


I asked what the shortfall was earlier if, as you claim (without any quantification) that only 15k of the losses are through EU nationals leaving then what the rest was, and you came out with tax law changes. I'm just amazed someone hasn't tried to claim the EU made us change our tax laws :ROFLMAO:
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Jeesus you really don't listen do you.

I put it down to no hgv tests for 18 months
tax changes
drivers retiring

and 20 years of shrinkage in the workforce.

Make up your own argument if you want BM but don't expect me to engage with them
 
What I find interesting in this EU Labour issue - is what will happen when people coming from the poorer areas of the EU dries up. Many employers have been using it for many years now to recruit lower level staff.

For example

Will they train more people from the UK? or in some cases start to train for the first time?
Will they increase pay levels?
Will they treat their workers in a different way to make working for them more attractive?
Will they automate their operations more?
Will they move their service and/or production overseas?
Will they move their service and/or production to cheaper areas of the UK?
Will they just close down?

Pay levels are definitely increasing at a high rate for low paid staff in the UK as vacancies have increased a lot in the last few months. Some people are saying its over 10% a year.

What interests me is how much is due to the UK leaving the EU and how much due to other issues such as coming out of Covid.
 
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Redwurzel said:
What I find interesting in this EU Labour issue - is what will happen when people coming from the poorer areas of the EU dries up. Many employers have been using it for many years now to recruit lower level staff.

For example

Will they train more people from the UK? or in some cases start to train for the first time?
Will they increase pay levels?
Will they treat their workers in a different way to make working for them more attractive?
Will they automate their operations more?
Will they move their service and/or production overseas?
Will they move their service and/or production to cheaper areas of the UK?
Will they just close down?

Pay levels are definitely increasing at a high rate for low paid staff in the UK as vacancies have increased a lot in the last few months. Some people are saying its over 10% a year.

What interests me is how much is due to the UK leaving the EU and how much due to other issues such as coming out of Covid.
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Cheap labour from poorer EU freedom of movement countries was only a thing of the last 10-15 years beginning in 2004, I'm sure that people can adapt.

People act like the EU is some kind of rock solid stable entity.
 
Laughing said:
Jeesus you really don't listen do you.

I put it down to no hgv tests for 18 months
tax changes
drivers retiring

and 20 years of shrinkage in the workforce.

Make up your own argument if you want BM but don't expect me to engage with them
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So now your changing your mind and saying Brexit hasn't exacerbated the problem?
 
SmallTown said:
I was reading. You initially put brexit as one of the issues and created an arbitrary 15% impact. In your last list you don't mention brexit
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As I said you don't listen too well, either read what I write or stop responding. I gave exactly where I got the 15% from and linked to the article. It wasn't arbitrary at all.

Secondly we were heading for this at some point with a dwindling driver workforce. Listen, understand them respond.
 
Laughing said:
As I said you don't listen too well, either read what I write or stop responding. I gave exactly where I got the 15% from and linked to the article. It wasn't arbitrary at all.

Secondly we were heading for this at some point with a dwindling driver workforce. Listen, understand them respond.
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But you acknowledge bnrexit has made the situation worse? Or at least you did.
 
SmallTown said:
But you acknowledge bnrexit has made the situation worse? Or at least you did.
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No what I said was this was coming without a pandemic it wouldn't have happened.

The industry needs to change and treat the drivers better with pay and benefits.

Leaving the eu highlighted the problem sooner, that's all.

You really are desperate to blame everything on our relationship with the EU. There is plenty to blame and they are almost all to do with the additional friction introduced to trade, stick to that.

You have had a mare on this thread with timber and now food,let it go.
 
To say that brexit has played no part in the driver shortage, to me you’ve got your head in the sand

whether or not we were heading to a driver shortage or not, brexit has brought it forward, during a pandemic.

imagine not extending a transition period during a global pandemic
 
GazC_MFC said:
To say that brexit has played no part in the driver shortage, to me you’ve got your head in the sand

whether or not we were heading to a driver shortage or not, brexit has brought it forward, during a pandemic.

imagine not extending a transition period during a global pandemic
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Your last sentence is absolutely true.

Look blame brexit for what it has done, and it has caused problems and plenty of them. But let's be balanced with the debate. Leaving the eu has not caused our supply chain to collapse.

St's original argument both with timber and food shortages is clearly, at best, inaccurate. Why he and others continue with this is a bit confusing to me.

What I suspect is happening is a wish simply not to amend our withdraw the statement. Which is fine, but a bit silly.

As for me having my head in the sand. I would argue that I clearly don't, I researched the issue and came with a clear view of where the problems actually lie, the exact opposite of having my head in the sand.
 
Laughing said:
No what I said was this was coming without a pandemic it wouldn't have happened.

The industry needs to change and treat the drivers better with pay and benefits.

Leaving the eu highlighted the problem sooner, that's all.

You really are desperate to blame everything on our relationship with the EU. There is plenty to blame and they are almost all to do with the additional friction introduced to trade, stick to that.

You have had a mare on this thread with timber and now food,let it go.
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I don't think I have "had a mare" Unless you mean i've highlighted the bullying and abuse that I regularly get without any reference to the subject. Also in "hainvg a mare": you think this is some sort of competition? Some sort of battle to be victorious of the internets? It's not, you know, it's a discussion of real life things affecting real life people. That's another brexiter trait as it happens, wanting to "win" the subject. The old "You lost, get over it" crowd. And it's really sad when you consider it's the future of a nation under discussion.

So you're now backtracking on the fact you said Brexit was a factor in the supply chain shortages? It no longer is the factor you thought it was?
 
SmallTown said:
I don't think I have "had a mare" Unless you mean i've highlighted the bullying and abuse that I regularly get without any reference to the subject. Also in "hainvg a mare": you think this is some sort of competition? Some sort of battle to be victorious of the internets? It's not, you know, it's a discussion of real life things affecting real life people. That's another brexiter trait as it happens, wanting to "win" the subject. The old "You lost, get over it" crowd. And it's really sad when you consider it's the future of a nation under discussion.

So you're now backtracking on the fact you said Brexit was a factor in the supply chain shortages? It no longer is the factor you thought it was?
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Oh bullying again for 3 pages it was all you talked about whilst insulting anyone that didn't agree with you.

Your narrative is boring, divisive, ill researched and quite frankly, in many ways, stupid.

I haven't backtracked at all, you on the other hand switched from timber shortages are a result of brexit to stop bullying me.

Either read and understand what I say or save your arguments for someone someone else! You bore me.
 
Laughing said:
Oh bullying again for 3 pages it was all you talked about whilst insulting anyone that didn't agree with you.

Your narrative is boring, divisive, ill researched and quite frankly, in many ways, stupid.

I haven't backtracked at all, you on the other hand switched from timber shortages are a result of brexit to stop bullying me.

Either read and understand what I say or save your arguments for someone someone else! You bore me.
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I didn't switch at all. please try and read the thread.

So, if I understand you correctly you say Brexit DID exacerbate our supply chain problem, but it would have eventually happened anyway. Is that true? Given that in a few years the "pingdemic" and covid related issues will be over.
 
SmallTown said:
I didn't switch at all. please try and read the thread.

So, if I understand you correctly you say Brexit DID exacerbate our supply chain problem, but it would have eventually happened anyway. Is that true? Given that in a few years the "pingdemic" and covid related issues will be over.
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You said that timber shortages were a result of brexit, its that true?
 
Laughing said:
You said that timber shortages were a result of brexit, its that true?
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I never did say timber shortages were a result of brexit as it happens. And I conceded twice to you that they weren't. I know you want to "WIN" the internets and prove your point but here's the thing: you, and it should be noted only you, were the only brexiteer on this thread who tried to debate with facts and not personal abuse. I happily conceded the point that timber shortages weren't yet the result of brexit, as the trade restrictions haven't yet been implemented.

This is the bit most of you aren't getting. I want to be proven wrong, I want to be assured everything will be OK. Because, I think that Brexit is the most stupid, self destructive, ill thought out and downright dangerous thing this country has ever done. I want people to prove me wrong. The fact people are getting angry and just attacking me rather than proving me wrong is strengthening my feelings.

So, there we have it. You'll think I had a "mare" or whatever phrase you want use on this thread because you think this is some sort of weird competiotjn, some battle between right and wrong. I don't think it is, I think it's a decision that affects 66 million people and I still haven't seen enough evidence to suggest it isn't catastrophic.


Do you think that our supply chain problem would have been shown up a few years down the line without brexit then? Given covid is likely to have reduced in impact by then?
 
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