U.S. Calls for Pause on Johnson & Johnson Vaccine

Wasn't the first delivery to the EU of this vaccine due this week, this is probably the last thing they want to hear after AZ.
 
FFS, "It said six cases of severe blood clotting had been detected in more than 6.8 million doses of the vaccine.
All six cases were in women aged between 18 and 48, with symptoms six to 13 days after vaccination.
The New York Times quoted officials as saying one woman had died and a second, in Nebraska, was in a critical condition."

When is a risk, not a risk? Or in this case, when is not a risk, a risk. They need to stop looking for something that isn't there and concentrate on what is there (covid). No vaccine is comparatively doing anywhere near as much harm compared to the alternative of having no vaccine and or catching covid.

Anything with a probability of less than 1 in 100,000 should automatically keep approval, until something is undoubtedly proven, and then proven to be worse than covid, and then proven to be worse than the chance of catching covid (long covid risk), unless there are other vaccines immediately available (which are proven to be far less risk).
 
6 in 6.8 million seems ridiculously low. To point where it's an insignificant figure surely?

isn't the chance of DVT after flying something like 1 in 100,000?

Not sure I really get what's going on here. What am I missing?
 
This raises an interesting point around who is liable if vaccines end up causing harm to people - The EU were very solid on the fact that manufacturers should pick up liability - I think the US and UK were more concerned with getting the vaccines out so were maybe more willing to conceed that responsibility.

Would explain the more corcious approach - I'd guess the last thing governments want is to be making massive pay offs to people who were those unlucky few who ended up having a adverse reaction to a vaccine - therefore if you see the slightest trend emerging you just push the stop button, or get any groups to take a different vaccine.
 
Blokes on football forum criticise FDA and CDC after months of telling everyone in earshot that we must defer to the guidance of experts and exercise great caution (which is still the correct thing to do, btw), now that their views are no longer aligned.
 
ThirdLeg said:
Blokes on football forum criticise FDA and CDC after months of telling everyone in earshot that we must defer to the guidance of experts and exercise great caution (which is still the correct thing to do, btw), now that their views are no longer aligned.
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Not really, different experts with different goals, and caution is still ensuring the most are vaccinated as fast as possible.

Before the experts wanted us locked down earlier for less risk to the whole population/ herd, especially those majorly at risk (which is fine). This is good for the collective, in all ways.

Now the FDA/ CDC want to lock down for less risk to individuals when the risk to them is already low (and the blood clot risk is minimal at best), at the cost of increasing the risk to the rest of the population/ herd. This is bad for the collective, and bad for the individual if the risk of catching covid is more risk than the available vaccine. Then that's not factoring in for death and illness 1 death in 6.8 million? How many with long term health issues? Not many as this probably subside quick. How many covid deaths from 6.8m infections, at any age group? How many get long covid?

Pausing vaccines is ar$e covering at best, and blindly ignoring where other risks are being increased.
 
Of those 6.8 million how many are on the road to developing blood clots? Anyone know this? How many already have blood clots but have shown no symptoms, anyone know this? How many will go on and develop blood clots, anyone know this?

There is some absolute nonsense posted on here.
 
Andy_W said:
When is a risk, not a risk? Or in this case, when is not a risk, a risk. They need to stop looking for something that isn't there and concentrate on what is there (covid). No vaccine is comparatively doing anywhere near as much harm compared to the alternative of having no vaccine and or catching covid.
Click to expand...
Why are you assuming that everybody who catches covid dies or suffers?

They say folks can spread it without even knowing it. Law of man math averages would determine that nearly everybody in the country has been in close contact with at least one person carrying the virus.

Need to stop looking for something that isn't there? Isn't that what the government's strategy is in this country?
 
Randy said:
Need to stop looking for something that isn't there?
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What isn’t there?

we’ve lost over 127,000 people and countless others now are enduring long COVID and no one knows how this will play out.

so what is it exactly that you are so disbelieving of ?
 
zorro_mfc said:
What isn’t there?

we’ve lost over 127,000 people and countless others now are enduring long COVID and no one knows how this will play out.

so what is it exactly that you are so disbelieving of ?
Click to expand...

Nothing at all Zorro, I see your trap and avoid it with a sprightly hop, skip and jump around it.

Our test and trace doesn't work.

www.bbc.com

'No clear impact' from £37bn NHS Test and Trace - BBC News

It was set up to help prevent lockdowns but there have been two more since its launch, MPs say.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
Randy said:
Law of man math averages would determine that nearly everybody in the country has been in close contact with at least one person carrying the virus.
Click to expand...
Thankfully people who understand complex statistics have been involved in the decision making process rather than keen amateurs...
 
bear66 said:
Test and trace - private companies

Vaccine roll out - NHS
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That's exactly what the problem is @bear66

Test and trace should be ran by local health authorities. Hancock has written off the NHS debt (well at least he said he has) so that should free up funds to run it properly. The private companies who've been in charge of the **** show should be forced to give the contract money back to the public purse.
 
Muttley said:
Thankfully people who understand complex statistics have been involved in the decision making process rather than keen amateurs...
Click to expand...
Am I right in remembering you suffered with covid earlier on last year? Where do you think you caught it? There are people who've had it and didn't know anything about it, our head chef was one of them for example. Law of averages would then say everybody in our kitchen at work would have caught it given the close proximity and length of time we spend together. He took an antibody test that were been handed out last year. He was poorly on January, in fact all the kitchen staff had time off with sickness that month bar I believe two others.

Nobody knows for absolutely certain. Even mass testing the population for antibodies ( a better use of the 37 billion wasted on a test and trace system that doesn't work) won't tell us much as people can be naturally immune to it and/or have no antibodies but have had the infection.
 
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