Triple lock on pensions dumped now

[Dybuk]

Triple lock staying according to Truss in PMQs

Can't imagine why! Buying the votes. Let's see how much older people want a government that improves things for all generations instead of one that protects them at the expense of other generations

 

[Nano]

It's contributory. If you don't contribute enough years you get less (or none). Therefore it is not a benefit.

You can qualify for a pension without contributing a penny. Anyone job seeking, training, on maternity/paternity, caring for someone, disabled etc can build NI credits without contributing anything.

It is a benefit and like all other benefits there is qualifying criteria for it.

It's not a savings account. Someone that only just qualifies by paying the minimum or didn't contribute at all but qualifies via NI credits receives the same amount as someone that paid millions.

 

[sherlock]

You can qualify for a pension without contributing a penny. Anyone job seeking, training, on maternity/paternity, caring for someone, disabled etc can build NI credits without contributing anything.

It is a benefit and like all other benefits there is qualifying criteria for it.

It's not a savings account. Someone that only just qualifies by paying the minimum or didn't contribute at all but qualifies via NI credits receives the same amount as someone that paid millions.

Ah so people caring for others aren’t contributing? That tells me all I need to know about you.

 

[HolgateCorner]

Can't imagine why! Buying the votes. Let's see how much older people want a government that improves things for all generations instead of one that protects them at the expense of other generations

In fairness to the pensioners, however badly they cast their votes, the state pension is far from generous.

You do feel that any state support for people is under serious threat like never before from this most right wing of Tory governments. I think their long term policy is to ensure that by the time ordinary people are in the wooden box any assets they might have built up in terms of savings, private pensions and home ownership have been expended on sustaining themselves through their old age.

 

[Nano]

Ah so people caring for others aren’t contributing? That tells me all I need to know about you.

Tells me you don't want a sensible conversation but a childish back and forth.

No, they didn't contribute a penny. They did qualify to receive the benefit because what they were doing was worthwhile. Ergo, it is not a social contract or a right, it is a benefit with qualifying criteria.

I posted because I was not sure why you are so hell bent on nitpicking the definition or being such an **** hole to @InglebyUTB. I see now it is because you are incapable of adult conversation.

 

[sherlock]

Tells me you don't want a sensible conversation but a childish back and forth.

No, they didn't contribute a penny. They did qualify to receive the benefit because what they were doing was worthwhile. Ergo, it is not a social contract or a right, it is a benefit with qualifying criteria.

I posted because I was not sure why you are so hell bent on nitpicking the definition or being such an **** hole to @InglebyUTB. I see now it is because you are incapable of adult conversation.

“can build NI credits without contributing anything”

Your words. Without contributing anything.

Pensions aren’t a benefit. Referring to them as such suits a political purpose.

You are clearly a Tory if you are wanting to push that narrative.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Tells me you don't want a sensible conversation but a childish back and forth.

No, they didn't contribute a penny. They did qualify to receive the benefit because what they were doing was worthwhile. Ergo, it is not a social contract or a right, it is a benefit with qualifying criteria.

I posted because I was not sure why you are so hell bent on nitpicking the definition or being such an **** hole to @InglebyUTB. I see now it is because you are incapable of adult conversation.

It has only recently been categorised as a benefit, it shouldn't have been. We pay in contributions and they're then returned to us divided. Those who opt out of contributing through early retirement etc receive less than the full amount.

We're pretty far down the scale of nations when it comes to looking after our elderly, it's why the triple lock should stay, we need to go some way to catch up to the more civilised nations.

 

[NYboro]

You can qualify for a pension without contributing a penny. Anyone job seeking, training, on maternity/paternity, caring for someone, disabled etc can build NI credits without contributing anything.

It is a benefit and like all other benefits there is qualifying criteria for it.

It's not a savings account. Someone that only just qualifies by paying the minimum or didn't contribute at all but qualifies via NI credits receives the same amount as someone that paid millions.

I can see that someone might spend 50 years as a carer, but job-seeking, training, maternity? Really? Must be very few of those and the UK state pension is the worst in the developed world.

 

[Zoophonic]

“can build NI credits without contributing anything”

Your words. Without contributing anything.

Pensions aren’t a benefit. Referring to them as such suits a political purpose.

You are clearly a Tory if you are wanting to push that narrative.

Agreed but isnt that straight from the "playbook" of divide. Create a feeling that pensioners are taking from the state and therefore to be targeted. I hate this pensioners v the young narrative. Both should be equally protected - not one at the expense of the other.

 

[sherlock]

Agreed but isnt that straight from the "playbook" of divide. Create a feeling that pensioners are taking from the state and therefore to be targeted. I hate this pensioners v the young narrative. Both should be equally protected - not one at the expense of the other.

Completely agree.

 

[Crusoe]

Perhaps it would be better to wait and see what will actually happen rather than swallowing all the crap pushed out by The MSM. They screamed for ever increasing lock downs which have cause the huge hole in the
public finances.

 

[ThePrisoner]

The look on Hunt's face as Truss commits to the triple lock he has decided he wants to be rid of.

 

[SocraTees]

I can see that someone might spend 50 years as a carer, but job-seeking, training, maternity? Really? Must be very few of those and the UK state pension is the worst in the developed world.

I can confirm from my own experience that the 4 years I spent at university in full time education as a mature student( you might deem that training) were not counted towards pension contributions and subsequently I had gaps in my NI record that I had to fill later in life.

 

[sherlock]

Perhaps it would be better to wait and see what will actually happen rather than swallowing all the crap pushed out by The MSM. They screamed for ever increasing lock downs which have cause the huge hole in the
public finances.

The Tories have been repeatedly asked to confirm the triple lock over recent days and have repeatedly refused to do it. The uncertainty is on them.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

The Tories have been repeatedly asked to confirm the triple lock over recent days and have repeatedly refused to do it. The uncertainty is on them.

straight out of the tory playbook, leak it first, see if it floats then confirm or dent it later

 

[ThePrisoner]

straight out of the tory playbook, leak it first, see if it floats then confirm or dent it later

Surely they must have known that one would sink like a stone?

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

Surely they must have known that one would sink like a stone?

You'd think so, but people put up with a lot. It also means they can look like they're doing something when she announces it in PMQ despite it just being what they said they would do anyway

 

[JM14]

Agreed but isnt that straight from the "playbook" of divide. Create a feeling that pensioners are taking from the state and therefore to be targeted. I hate this pensioners v the young narrative. Both should be equally protected - not one at the expense of the other.

Agree but they aren’t, a government that is making life practically impossible for younger people, but basically protecting pensions at huge expense to buy their votes despite them having a lifetime of far more favourable economic conditions that this generation will never see

 

[Nano]

I can see that someone might spend 50 years as a carer, but job-seeking, training, maternity? Really? Must be very few of those and the UK state pension is the worst in the developed world.

I can confirm from my own experience that the 4 years I spent at university in full time education as a mature student( you might deem that training) were not counted towards pension contributions and subsequently I had gaps in my NI record that I had to fill later in life.

They are just the criteria on gov.uk. There are plenty of people that have never had a job or work cash in hand and claim jobseekers/universal credit etc. If you are on those long term then they send you on training and it is that specific government-approved training that gives NI credits.

There are a few reason that the UK pension is worse than many other countries. In most cases it isn't. We pay a flat rate but poorer people can get pension credits and they can still qualify for housing benefit. Other countries like Germany have a completely different system. Their minimum pension is less than our state pension but there is no maximum because it's based on contributions and is related to salaries so the average is massively skewed by high earners. They pay 20% (split 50:50 employee:employer) of their salary. You would have to add the state pension and occupational pensions in the UK to get a more realistic comparison. Germany also has a much lower rate of home ownership so has to pay more otherwise people would be homeless.

“can build NI credits without contributing anything”

Your words. Without contributing anything.

Pensions aren’t a benefit. Referring to them as such suits a political purpose.

You are clearly a Tory if you are wanting to push that narrative.

I'm not a Tory. If you read my previous post you will notice that I said the state pension should be universal. The state pension is a benefit. The definition is the definition whether you like it or not.

The fairest solution is to link everything to the triple lock so everyone benefits, not remove it. All benefits, all public sector pay and anything else that has annual cost of living increases.

 

[1finny]

The look on Hunt's face as Truss commits to the triple lock he has decided he wants to be rid of.

View attachment 46078

Peston reporting that Truss has bounced Hunt without consultation.
Hunt told Peston at the weekend triple lock was going.
Be interesting to hear next steps.
It needs funding…..