Triple lock on pensions dumped now

In the 1970s the image of a pensioner was someone who lived purely on their state pension. My granny did and rented a council house. I think she got some help with the rent, but not all of the rent. She had the equivalent of around £3,000 in today money in savings to pay for her funeral. She had no car or bike, most of her household possessions were over 15 years old, probably with the exception of a black and white TV that was about 8 years old. She did not own a fridge in the 1970s or have a telephone. She never went on holiday except days out. Her clothes were bought from market stalls. She was careful with her small income and so always had money to keep her warm and free from hunger.

Nowadays a 67 year old pensioner will probably own their own property outright, own a car, spend over £1000 a year on holidays, have a subscription service, have income from more than one source, say state pension and private pension. If they only have state pension they are able to claim Pension Credit and housing benefit if they rent. They can probably can also claim council tax relief if only on state pension.

I am convinced the pensioner of 1975 and 2022 are in general different.

Having said that I do think older pensioners are more likely to need care today as they live past the age of 80, but didn't so much in the 1970s.

I alway felt the triple lock was in part a political bribe to keep pensioners on your side, particularly by recent Conservative Governments, OAPs would rise by say 3 to 5% but many other welfare benefits were frozen. Quite a number of comfortably off pensioners were being put ahead of say the younger disabled and ill or young people living in disadvantaged areas of the UK where job opportunities were limited.

My feeling is that a bit more pensioner support should be means tested and the triple lock removed. With the money saved spent on the NHS and Social care.
 
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sherlock1969 said:
What absolute nonsense.

Pensions aren't a benefit, it's a social contract. People have paid in for years to get their pension and if they haven't contributed for enough years they don't get full (or any) state pension.

Are you suggesting those pensioners who fail your means test should be refunded their contributions?
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Nope the state pension is a benefit. Those "contributions" were paid out to pensioners at the time.


Sorry to break it to you but there is no pot of cash full of the money you have paid in. It has been spent.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
With all the vvankers to subsidise you could be right. So let's stop subsidising your mates and give those who deserve it a fair pension
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Correct. Over 65's are the richest demographic. 1 in 5 are millionaires however a fair number are also quite poor so give much more to them instead of paying benefits to millionaires.
 
Inflation now 10.1%.
This is the figure increases in the State Pension and working age benefits should be based on.

Let's see.
 
Redwurzel said:
In the 1970s the image of a pensioner was someone who lived purely on their state pension. My granny did and rented a council house. I think she got some help with the rent, but not all of the rent. She had the equivalent of around £3,000 in today money in savings to pay for her funeral. She had no car or bike, most of her household possessions were over 15 years old, probably with the exception of a black and white TV that was about 8 years old. She did not own a fridge in the 1970s or have a telephone. She never went on holiday except days out. Her clothes were bought from market stalls. She was careful with her small income and so always had money to keep her warm and free from hunger.

Nowadays a 67 year old pensioner will probably own their own property outright, own a car, spend over £1000 a year on holidays, have a subscription service, have income from more than one source, say state pension and private pension. If they only have state pension they are able to claim Pension Credit and housing benefit if they rent. They can probably can also claim council tax relief if only on state pension.

I am convinced the pensioner of 1975 and 2022 are in general different.

Having said that I do think older pensioners are more likely to need care today as they live past the age of 80, but didn't so much in the 1970s.

I alway felt the triple lock was in part a political bribe to keep pensioners on your side, particularly by recent Conservative Governments, OAPs would rise by say 3 to 5% but many other welfare benefits were frozen. Quite a number of comfortably off pensioners were being put ahead of say the younger disabled and ill or young people living in disadvantaged areas of the UK where job opportunities were limited.

My feeling is that a bit more pensioner support should be means tested and the triple lock removed. With the money saved spent on the NHS and Social care.
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Sorry Red, that's maybe your image of it but not a true reflection at all.

I work in a local authority and there are plenty of 67 year old people retiring who are on their backsides financially.

I would also guess that the more money you give through the triple lock to pensioners etc the less likely they will need to use the NHS, after all there is a direct link with poverty and health. If pensioners can't afford to use the heating they will get poorly.

Instead of targeting groups of people we can make poorer what we need to do it look at where money is spaffed pointlessly. Stuff like Festivals of Brexit, grants to rich towns to replace placing slabs, HS2, billons in PPE & Covid fraud etc etc. Betty up the road shouldn't have to pay for the mistakes of Rishi Sunak.
 
thewanderer said:
Nope the state pension is a benefit. Those "contributions" were paid out to pensioners at the time.


Sorry to break it to you but there is no pot of cash full of the money you have paid in. It has been spent.
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I think Sherlock is right, it’s a social contract no matter where the money comes from.

If they means test the basic pension (which is not very much anyway) then I think it would lead to legal action against the government.
 
thewanderer said:
Sorry to break it to you but there is no pot of cash full of the money you have paid in. It has been spent.
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I work in benefits - the State Pension is not a benefit. It is a right.

There are plenty of pensioners on means tested support and many who could get it but don't apply.

How about you going without if the pot is empty? Maybe pay for your NHS treatment? Maybe pay for the roads you use through tolls? Or donate your government energy support to a charity?
 
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NoloBoro said:
They’re ****ed already, look at the affordability of home ownership. I don’t sit in either age bracket but the word ‘pensioners’ is emotive for some as it conjures images of people sat with blankets over their knees, huddled round a single bar electric fire, whereas in most cases it’s far from the truth.
I don’t get this why this ‘triple lock’ has remained in place.
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Its pensioners keeping retail business on the high street going. Cafes, restaurants, cinemas theatres pubs all need pensioners through their doors to spend money. Spending a life time paying NI contributions and then being abandoned is just something a civilised society should never ever contemplate.
 
The boomer generation, as a whole, is clearly far more wealthy than previous generations of pensioners. They are so wealthy that they have massive advantages that the younger generations will never have. The under 30s will grow up as a generation where homeownership is far below what it was for the boomers and so their wealth will never be comparable. May people in the boomer generation have been able to retire early, many still in their 50s and I don't think that is something following generations will have the chance to do. They'll be working up until they're 70. A huge part of the reason they can retire so early is because they only have to bridge the gap between their 50s and state pension age before they get their state pension on top.

However, just because the generation as a whole is wealthy it doesn't mean individuals are. The state pension is generous for those that don't need it and not enough for others. It should be a universal benefit and the only thing that would happen if you tried changing it is that the changes will come into effect after the current generation have already got their pension and the next generation that haven't had it so lucky will find themselves with a lower pension and working longer. The pension will compound over time so any benefit that pensioners get now should be received by future generations. Campaigning to change that is campaigning against your own future.
 
Nano said:
The boomer generation, as a whole, is clearly far more wealthy than previous generations of pensioners. They are so wealthy that they have massive advantages that the younger generations will never have. The under 30s will grow up as a generation where homeownership is far below what it was for the boomers and so their wealth will never be comparable. May people in the boomer generation have been able to retire early, many still in their 50s and I don't think that is something following generations will have the chance to do. They'll be working up until they're 70. A huge part of the reason they can retire so early is because they only have to bridge the gap between their 50s and state pension age before they get their state pension on top.

However, just because the generation as a whole is wealthy it doesn't mean individuals are. The state pension is generous for those that don't need it and not enough for others. It should be a universal benefit and the only thing that would happen if you tried changing it is that the changes will come into effect after the current generation have already got their pension and the next generation that haven't had it so lucky will find themselves with a lower pension and working longer. The pension will compound over time so any benefit that pensioners get now should be received by future generations. Campaigning to change that is campaigning against your own future.
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Not to forget of course all these home owning boomers will be eventually passing their wealth downwards to their children so there will be a percolating effect.
 
sherlock1969 said:
It's more easy than it should be as so many gullible fools fall for it every time.
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I'm closer to retirement than being a youth. But I guess the issue is that a lot of pensioners fell for the divide and conquer tactics well before the youth did. They've consistently voted in the 'divide and conquer' party and don't tell me that's anecdotal. My mam couldn't be redder but she's in the minority. Pensioners have voted for this lot in droves because they looked after them in comparison to other age groups
 
Another few million voting Labour, and many of them the older retired demographic that tradionally make up a large part of the Tory vote.
I'd be loving it if it weren't for the fact that the Country is sinking deeper and deeper into the Tory Shytehole.
 
Dybuk said:
I'm closer to retirement than being a youth. But I guess the issue is that a lot of pensioners fell for the divide and conquer tactics well before the youth did. They've consistently voted in the 'divide and conquer' party and don't tell me that's anecdotal. My mam couldn't be redder but she's in the minority. Pensioners have voted for this lot in droves because they looked after them in comparison to other age groups
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My uncle has lived in Thailand for the last 40 years and still posts anti labour rhetoric for letting load of foreigners in and touts Brexit as the best thing ever. Couldn't make it up. Probably visited here 15 times max in that time. If he could vote it would be Tory I am sure.
 
BoroFur said:
Inflation now 10.1%.
This is the figure increases in the State Pension and working age benefits should be based on.

Let's see.
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As should wages, allowing wages to decrease but adding a significant amount to working age benefits doesn’t really make work pay which is vital when you see just how many job vacancies are currently available
 
Nano said:
However, just because the generation as a whole is wealthy it doesn't mean individuals are. The state pension is generous for those that don't need it and not enough for others.
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And there is part of the problem . How do you determine what is enough or not enough ? My father worked 40 years in the steel industry from being 15 in ****£y conditions . He has an ok company pension now and a state . Unless he goes crazy he said he has enough to get by and enjoy life . Is his enough or not enough ? Should he be penalised for working flat out for 40 years sacrificing loads to bring up his family and own a home ? Or people now who are earning above average wages , continuing more £ in tax and NI than others , do they deserve less in later life than some others. This is why for me it’s the same pension for all that contribute as higher than anvergae earners have already contributed more . They should enjoy some fruit of their labour , further penalising js unfair in my view
 
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