Tories battered

I agree, I’m at the point where I think it’s more important not to have a Tory government than have Labour in power, we need PR to avoid the damage to ordinary people’s lives caused by the rich right wing in this country.

Aside from the fact it's a deflection tactic, the other reason the Tories are whining about an "election pact" between labour and lib Dems is because they know they only win because the left of centre vote is split. Whereas the Tories are the only legitimate right wing party. They're rightly worried this could be the start of a wider trend.

The more people realise they need to vote tactically, the more trouble the Tories are in.

We desperately need PR to stop a minority (admittedly a significant minority) of right wing lunatics, racists and xenophobes from dragging this country even further into the gutter. Until we get there, anyone who cares about decency, the rule of law, the environment and gives an iota of a **** for their fellow man needs to try and game the system as much a possible.
 
Aside from the fact it's a deflection tactic, the other reason the Tories are whining about an "election pact" between labour and lib Dems is because they know they only win because the left of centre vote is split. Whereas the Tories are the only legitimate right wing party. They're rightly worried this could be the start of a wider trend.

The more people realise they need to vote tactically, the more trouble the Tories are in.

We desperately need PR to stop a minority (admittedly a significant minority) of right wing lunatics, racists and xenophobes from dragging this country even further into the gutter. Until we get there, anyone who cares about decency, the rule of law, the environment and gives an iota of a **** for their fellow man needs to try and game the system as much a possible.
The Lib Dems aren't a left of centre party, they're right of centre but not as far as the Tories. They implemented the austerity measures, let's not forget.

The best hope for the country is that they replace the Tories as the dominant right wing opposition.
 
The Lib Dems aren't a left of centre party, they're right of centre but not as far as the Tories. They implemented the austerity measures, let's not forget.

The best hope for the country is that they replace the Tories as the dominant right wing opposition.
I don’t have much problem with moderate Tories but I think they struggle, and always have, to contain the extreme elements of their party, they are easily conned.

Even Thatcher, who they all revere, was undoubtedly an extremist, she was honest and upstanding, but her policies were extreme and we are still damaged by what she did.

We must find a way to unite the non Tory vote to achieve true and moderate democracy.
 
Aside from the fact it's a deflection tactic, the other reason the Tories are whining about an "election pact" between labour and lib Dems is because they know they only win because the left of centre vote is split. Whereas the Tories are the only legitimate right wing party. They're rightly worried this could be the start of a wider trend.

The more people realise they need to vote tactically, the more trouble the Tories are in.

We desperately need PR to stop a minority (admittedly a significant minority) of right wing lunatics, racists and xenophobes from dragging this country even further into the gutter. Until we get there, anyone who cares about decency, the rule of law, the environment and gives an iota of a **** for their fellow man needs to try and game the system as much a possible.
You've just posted pretty much what I was going to write, having seen the clip of the Attorney General suggest that voting tactically is somehow 'dishonest'.

It's exhausting living in a country being run by the most unsuitable people in the highest offices. Barristers go on strike soon - she should concentrate her mad googly eyes on that for a while.
 
Will never vote Tory. Can’t currently vote Labour under Starmer.

Genuinely don’t know who to vote for.
This is why the Tories will win the next election.

Tories will vote for any rotting corpse with a blue tie on, whereas Labour supporters won’t vote for any labour candidate who isn’t their perfect ideal candidate.

The tories don’t have to beat Labour in a general election, they only have to beat 25% of the Labour Party
 
Starmer doesn't do it for me !!!!!!!!!!!
Is it because he isn't funny? Doesn't have mad hair? Isn't a lying tvvat? Doesn't take bung after bung? Isn't a serial adulterer? Isn't taking the country down a rabbit hole? Hasn't surrounded himself with clueless ignorant sychopants? What do people need to feel they would vote for someone,anyone to rid us of this madman? I just do not get it....
Maybe not having the charisma of a circus clown would be appealing.....
 
The Lib Dems aren't a left of centre party, they're right of centre but not as far as the Tories. They implemented the austerity measures, let's not forget.

The best hope for the country is that they replace the Tories as the dominant right wing opposition.
Certainly debatable. Left wingers probably tend to see them as centre right. Right wingers as centre left. They're probably just centrist really (more to the right on the economy, more to the left on social issues).

The important thing at this moment in time is they can take seats off the Tories that labour can't.
 
Vote tactically. Who's Tories biggest threat in your constituency? Then vote for them

Why? That would be swapping a government I’m not happy with, for a government I’m not happy with. It doesn’t matter which one is worse if they’re both bad. I don’t believe Labour represent the working class anymore.

It was a party founded by union workers to protect workers rights, and currently it isn’t supporting the union in its strikes. There is no option for the left, except maybe the Green Party.

It might all change if Starmer is found guilty and quits.
 
Starmer doesn't do it for me !!!!!!!!!!!
Is it because he isn't funny? Doesn't have mad hair? Isn't a lying tvvat? Doesn't take bung after bung? Isn't a serial adulterer? Isn't taking the country down a rabbit hole? Hasn't surrounded himself with clueless ignorant sychopants? What do people need to feel they would vote for someone,anyone to rid us of this madman? I just do not get it....
Maybe not having the charisma of a circus clown would be appealing.....

Supposedly we have a Parliamentary Democracy..Voting for a candidate.
Unfortunately now the system now is almost totally Presidential.

Last time I looked I think Denmark had 8-9 parties involved in coalition
They seem to do ok. A Swedish friend told me it took about 6 months to put theirs together. Mainly because no party wanted to have the Swedish Democrats, far right wingers,involved at all
But I agree with Billy 69. Unfortunately PR (STV) will never happen here.
FPTP is really not a Democratic system, only ourselves and Belarus, in Europe use it.
 
It doesn’t matter which one is worse if they’re both bad.

So if it was Hitler or labour you still wouldn't vote against Hitler?

Ah well as long as people like you can stay on their high horse I suppose it doesn't matter if people can't afford to eat or end up illegally deported to Rwanda.

I suppose we'll just keep on waiting for that perfect leader/party to come along before we think about removing the crooks from power. Might not be much of a country left to govern by that point, but at least you can sleep soundly knowing you didn't compromise on your principles I suppose.
 
Why? That would be swapping a government I’m not happy with, for a government I’m not happy with. It doesn’t matter which one is worse if they’re both bad. I don’t believe Labour represent the working class anymore.

It was a party founded by union workers to protect workers rights, and currently it isn’t supporting the union in its strikes. There is no option for the left, except maybe the Green Party.

It might all change if Starmer is found guilty and quits.
If you think anyone is as bad as the current junta you haven't been paying attention.

I'm sorry but it's utterly nonsense to say labour will be the same as Tory.

The won't try and remove your human rights, they won't spend all your money on giving lucrative contract to their friends. They just aren't in the same league. So, vote tactically and remove the fascists. Then we can talk
 
If you think anyone is as bad as the current junta you haven't been paying attention.

I'm sorry but it's utterly nonsense to say labour will be the same as Tory.

The won't try and remove your human rights, they won't spend all your money on giving lucrative contract to their friends. They just aren't in the same league. So, vote tactically and remove the fascists. Then we can talk

The next election will be very different but Labour have to take a look at their constitution which I believe calls for them to fight for the right to win an election.
They won’t win the next election

The only game in town is to ‘vote the Torys out’
It needs a formal or informal relationship with Lib Dem and has to exclude SNP.

Remember, for Blair to oust them there was an informal arrangement where Libs and Lab only attacked the Tories and not each other.

The public don’t come up with ‘lacking vision and dynamism’ for Starmer. The Press do.
That gets translated into ‘boring’.
They are doing a job on him and people are accepting it.
 
If you think anyone is as bad as the current junta you haven't been paying attention.

I'm sorry but it's utterly nonsense to say labour will be the same as Tory.

The won't try and remove your human rights, they won't spend all your money on giving lucrative contract to their friends. They just aren't in the same league. So, vote tactically and remove the fascists. Then we can talk

I definitely don’t think there are anyone worse than the tories, I never have and never will. I also have no respect for those that willingly vote for them given everything they have done to the working class in this country since Thatcher.

I don’t understand what Starmer stands for, he doesn’t attack where the tories need attacking. For instance - he doesn’t seem to be for taxing big business their fair share? He doesn’t seem to have a stance on immigration. The whole spiel is ‘they’re better than the Tories’, but I’m sorry that’s not enough.

I’d see a vote for Labour under his centrist government as a continuation as the status quo and he’s yet to say anything to change my mind.
 
I definitely don’t think there are anyone worse than the tories, I never have and never will. I also have no respect for those that willingly vote for them given everything they have done to the working class in this country since Thatcher.

I don’t understand what Starmer stands for, he doesn’t attack where the tories need attacking. For instance - he doesn’t seem to be for taxing big business their fair share? He doesn’t seem to have a stance on immigration. The whole spiel is ‘they’re better than the Tories’, but I’m sorry that’s not enough.

I’d see a vote for Labour under his centrist government as a continuation as the status quo and he’s yet to say anything to change my mind.
It really isn't. If you don't vote tactically then we will end up with the to Tories again. And despite what you think, anything is better than them. The only thing thay can keep them in power is labour infighters like you refusing to vote tactically. You can argue anout your brand of socialism or faith in a party leader all you like but the simple fact is if you don't vote for them you're effectively voting Tory
 
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