Tiverton By Election

SuperStu

Well-known member
Inflation is caused by supply not demand. Payrises for normal people wouldn't have the effect you're saying it would Andy.

If you take the RMT strike for instance, national rail made £500m profit last year. Thats the money that ought to be used to fund appropriate payrises for the staff. Its money that already exists and is already part of our economy. Payrises just move it from its current location to normal peoples pockets.

So once you've discounted inflation as a risk, whats the impact on the economy? More people with more money = more spending. Which is good for whoever/wherever they're doing that spending.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
it's the greed from investment firms wanting to drive prices up to guarantee a minimum profit for their wealth management fund and ultimately the uber rich that invest their 'hard earned' in those funds. They want the poor to take the brunt of the pain, and are not prepared to drop their return on investment to keep costs down. This is proven by the fact that the wealth has been transferring for a decade from the poor to the rich. There are ample metrics out there to support this view.

Yes there are other factors such as ukraine and brexit and green pledges driving costs up, but the reality is the rich expect a return on their money, and don't give a hoot that it impacts the cost of living and ultimately inflation
We're in a bear market now though, investors don't want the S&P 500 dropping 20% etc, which it has, nobody wants a zero growth economy apart from people betting against the markets etc. Then there's quantitive easing/ and stimulus cheques etc, which boomed the markets, but inevitably were going to lead to a crash.

Obviously people can trade oil and gas, but that's quite volatile, Natural Gas has dropped 30% in two weeks, Brent crude about 10% etc.
 

newusername

Well-known member
Right got it. Your still wrong of course. Inflation isn't being caused by consumers.
Agreed.

Since June last year the £ has fallen against the $ by 13%, in the same period the price of oil has risen by a 1/3, gas has doubled in price, & electricity has trebled.
Fuel & energy make up a large proportion of household budgets and are therefore large contributors to the rise in inflation.
Obviously manufacturers, distributors & retailers are also hit by these rises & so have put up prices to cover them.

Given the fall in the £ you'd expect exports to pick up but export of goods has actually declined and has not been covered by an increase in the export of services, so our trade deficit has increased.

Suppressing pay rises so people are worse off isn't going to change this.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
Inflation is caused by supply not demand. Payrises for normal people wouldn't have the effect you're saying it would Andy.

If you take the RMT strike for instance, national rail made £500m profit last year. Thats the money that ought to be used to fund appropriate payrises for the staff. Its money that already exists and is already part of our economy. Payrises just move it from its current location to normal peoples pockets.

So once you've discounted inflation as a risk, whats the impact on the economy? More people with more money = more spending. Which is good for whoever/wherever they're doing that spending.
Supply can stay the same, but if demand geos up, then supply can't meet it, or there's no short term labour to meet it, it's linked. A 5% pay increase across the board wouldn't help inflation that's for sure, whether it would go up by 5% is anyone's guess, it depends on the market conditions at the time.

National Rail/ Network Rail make money because they charge more than any other rail company on the planet, to make up for how badly they're ran. They should be making more money, from charging their punters less, but that's a problem for another day I guess. If they were better ran/ more efficient then they could certainly pay their lower end staff better, from the savings made.

I agree that the lower end should be paid more, at the expense of those on the higher end (in any industry), but it won't happen, all it will mean is costs going up, and no doubt the higher earners getting more too! Or we could just give the worst off tax breaks, to account to the same value as a 10% rise or whatever, and make up that loss from taxing bigger business/ higher earners.

I don't agree with strikes as they're a blunt tool, which also causes massive public and economic damage, it should never get to that point. It wouldn't be a problem in the first place if tax structures were better, had we kept inflation down or had we not shot ourselves in the foot economically with brexit etc. then couple that with the pandemic/ war, and it's literally the perfect storm, it's a nightmare.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
Agreed.

Since June last year the £ has fallen against the $ by 13%, in the same period the price of oil has risen by a 1/3, gas has doubled in price, & electricity has trebled.
Fuel & energy make up a large proportion of household budgets and are therefore large contributors to the rise in inflation.
Obviously manufacturers, distributors & retailers are also hit by these rises & so have put up prices to cover them.

Given the fall in the £ you'd expect exports to pick up but export of goods has actually declined and has not been covered by an increase in the export of services, so our trade deficit has increased.

Suppressing pay rises so people are worse off isn't going to change this.
I think as oil is traded in dollars, we've lost out to the pound falling, and also to the dollar price per barrell increasing.

Say £$ was 1.4 last July, and the barrel $75
Now £$ is 1.2, and the barrel $108
At £100 = $140 and $75 a barrel, you're getting 1.87 barrels of oil for £100
At £100 = $120 and $108 a barrell, you're getting 1.11 barrels of oil for £100

So basically a barrel has gone from costing us 53p to 90p, which is a 70% increase, and in that time our petrol costs have gone up 40% or so.

Similar works for gas, and electricity is largely created by gas, so similar happens.

Exports won't pick up, as we're getting hammered by brexit.
 
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Andy_W

Well-known member
In my experience those talking about not giving pay rises are usually those who are very comfortable in life.
Yeah, generally that's true, but it doesn't always mean they don't care about those worst off, in most cases it does mind.

Most don't advocate for taxing themselves and big business more, and decreasing taxes for the worst off, or increasing support with benefits, which could effectively act the same as giving a raise.
 
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Uwefuchs

Well-known member
She's an absolute clown, there's good competition at the bottom also mind, from the likes of BJ, Patel and JRM, and many others.

Take away the posh accents, public schooling and some of them would be lucky to hold down a job in Mcdonalds.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
Take away the posh accents, public schooling and some of them would be lucky to hold down a job in Mcdonalds.
They'd probably cut all ties with their fries/ burger suppliers in the first week, put up prices by 50% and start taking the **** out of their punters as they walked through the door.

The only job any of them could do at MacDonald's is taking Ronald's job, but they'd probably scare the kids and take the toys out of happy meals. Could call them "Misery Meals".
 

festa5

Well-known member
Supply can stay the same, but if demand geos up, then supply can't meet it, or there's no short term labour to meet it, it's linked. A 5% pay increase across the board wouldn't help inflation that's for sure, whether it would go up by 5% is anyone's guess, it depends on the market conditions at the time.

National Rail/ Network Rail make money because they charge more than any other rail company on the planet, to make up for how badly they're ran. They should be making more money, from charging their punters less, but that's a problem for another day I guess. If they were better ran/ more efficient then they could certainly pay their lower end staff better, from the savings made.

I agree that the lower end should be paid more, at the expense of those on the higher end (in any industry), but it won't happen, all it will mean is costs going up, and no doubt the higher earners getting more too! Or we could just give the worst off tax breaks, to account to the same value as a 10% rise or whatever, and make up that loss from taxing bigger business/ higher earners.

I don't agree with strikes as they're a blunt tool, which also causes massive public and economic damage, it should never get to that point. It wouldn't be a problem in the first place if tax structures were better, had we kept inflation down or had we not shot ourselves in the foot economically with brexit etc. then couple that with the pandemic/ war, and it's literally the perfect storm, it's a nightmare.

Out of interest what should people and/or unions do instead then if their employers and government decide to take the **** and constantly erode pay and conditions? They don't strike on a whim, they're a tool of last resort once all other avenues have been exhausted.

So what's the effective alternative?
 

festa5

Well-known member
The tory mp who hid in dance studio
interview 😙

Ready made replacement for Dorries her. Not sure there's enough gin in Whitehall for the both of them.

Not sure what my favourite part was.

It's the media's fault no-one like Boris because they keep pointing out the bad things he's done.

Or

I'm quite jealous of the state controlled media Putin has

Or

I only came in here to dance. Do you want to see me dance?

As has been said many times, this lot are beyond parody. 😂
 

Chris_Boro

Well-known member
Ready made replacement for Dorries her. Not sure there's enough gin in Whitehall for the both of them.

Not sure what my favourite part was.

It's the media's fault no-one like Boris because they keep pointing out the bad things he's done.

Or

I'm quite jealous of the state controlled media Putin has

Or

I only came in here to dance. Do you want to see me dance?

As has been said many times, this lot are beyond parody. 😂

Rosie Holt is an amazing MP.
 

r00fie1

Well-known member
One rule for the rich>>>>>>>>>>>

Birmingham Airport chief executive gets 49% pay rise​

By Simon Gilbert
BBC CWR Political reporter

Published
2 hours ago
1656081599976.png
The chief executive of Birmingham Airport has been given a 49% pay rise, angering trade unions.
Nick Barton's annual wage has risen from £399,000 to £595,000.

It comes as air travellers have been experiencing long delays and cancellations.
Jane Nellist, president of Coventry Trade Union Council, said the pay was "absolutely disgraceful", but airport board member John McNicholas said it was "paying the appropriate rate".

Staff shortages, among security staff in particular, have caused major issues for travellers at Birmingham Airport which received £12.8m of public money from the government to support it during the Covid pandemic.
It also laid off 43% of its staff during the period, when the business was forced to virtually shut down. It has been seeking to fill gaps as demand for travel returns.
......

Birmingham Airport said it hoped to be back to full staffing levels by August, and explained: "We pay our senior management in line with market rates."

Heathrow's chief executive has received an annual salary increase of 85% to almost £1.5m a year, and the boss at Manchester Airport Group had a pay rise of 25% to £2.5m.

Mr McNicholas, who also sits on Coventry City Council, described Mr Barton as "a very dynamic person, full of great ideas" and as "someone absolutely perfect for Birmingham Airport".

He said: "It is paying the appropriate rate and while it may seem high for many, many people because of the current circumstance, we've also got to look to the future and ensure we have the right person in the post."

The Department for Transport said: "The aviation industry is responsible for making sure they have enough staff to meet demand, and we have been clear that they must step up recruitment to make sure disruption is kept to a minimum."
 
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