The United ***show of America

Bernies omission massively split the democrat vote and disenfranchised millions of voters ( esp young students) and they never Really recovered.

FEEL THE BERN
 
dooderooni said:
Trump gives light to the things that some people hide and legitimises them. They hide them because they know they are wrong, unlike extremists who embrace their views.
You don't have to be openly racist to back Trump, but you do have to be open to racism to not reject him out of hand.
The lies, the pushing of the boundaries, the normalisation of the abnormal, these have all been steps towards an autocracy and it is now crunch time for Americans to either defend the constitution or to reject it. Trump has hidden behind the constitution while simultaneously trying to tear it up, it is time for America to decide on its future.
Click to expand...
We've made our decision - we'll be home next year (assuming we're still alive). I've consistently said I could never become a US citizen and 45 has forced us into checking the value of our pension schemes.
 
Oooo said:
It all comes down to religion. The religious right in America love Trump as he seems to stand up for their values. They oppose the idea that you can legislate to solve issues and instead believe the problem is people not having god in their hearts. They have gone so far away from the teachings of Christ (BTW I am not religious but those teachings are good). I mean bibles and guns just do not go together
Click to expand...
Fortunately, that episode with the bible seems to have split the religious right, with some finding it abhorrent.
 
zzzzz said:
I just struggle very badly with his approval ratings. I simply just do not get it. Tbh I'm bordering on xenophobia with it.
I just can't weigh up how or why he remains as popular as he does?
I keep thinking, after each appalling Trump episode, that surely thats the final straw but it seems no matter what he does or says they still see him as their man.
How can they go from Obama to him?

Can someone help me with this?
Click to expand...
you get the same thing here, mo matter how bad johnson does, no matter how many die they still back him, i dont know if its the racism they admire, the misogyny or the fact that he "got brexit done" , but in some eyes he can do no wrong.
 
It’s not the same though really, as we don’t directly elect the prime minister in this county as in you don’t see his name on the ballot sheet ( unless you live in his constituency) but in the us you do see the name Donald trump when you step into the polling station.

Psychologically that’s a big difference
 
zorro_mfc said:
The answer is simple people hated hillary, in order for him to win that election he needed to be up against some one more polarising than himself. She was the ultimate marmite candidate ( hell some democrats didn’t vote for her).

for those that don’t really know america it may surprise them to discover just how unpopular hillary Clinton was/is over there but then again to some she is beyond reproach the devoted masses, there are very few in the us that didn’t have an opinion on her.. be she was the perfect woman to be America’s first female president or she was the she devil that killed those people in white water ( google it).

trump knew this and so just as he did in the primaries knew the answer wasn’t about what he can do but more about what she can’t his personal smear campaign was such that she was portrayed as the elitist Wall Street shill even though he was the real one percenter The New Yorker socialite Billionaire but he was somehow the common man.
Click to expand...

Yes I get how he got elected, it was a simple rejection of the establishment 'smae old same old'. Doesn't explain why he has largely maintained his support base.
 
zzzzz said:
Yes I get how he got elected, it was a simple rejection of the establishment 'smae old same old'. Doesn't explain why he has largely maintained his support base.
Click to expand...
Fear and prejudice mainly by brainwashing the masses not to trust the media ( the enemy) but to listen to him only him.
 
BoroMart said:
neo-liberals used the media to demonise the left and frighten people into not voting for them. It's the same trick that has happened here for 45 years. We were all told that the country would go bankrupt if Kinnock got in, Thatcher got in and was the start of boom and bust. Brown was blamed for a world financial failure and project fear was instigated that we would be bankrupt if we didn't vote Tory. Then the debt increased while public services were ground down. Corbyn was painted as a national threat to security and financially incompetent. Yet here we are with a Tory government that is a threat to national security sending people back to care homes to infect and kill, while our financial performance is continuing to be terrible.

The reality is fear is an easier sell than optimism, fear of change is the easiest fear of all to sell. Therefore conservatism and its advocacy of keeping the status quo is the easiest of the easy sells.
Click to expand...

Thanks. But why does he get continued support? Pretty sure he'll get another term.
I'm confused because It's at odds with the Amercans I've lived and worked with.

It's a place I love to visit but tbh I'd think twice about going back now.
 
To answer that you need to look into the antiquated electoral college system in the us (this is why I hate those that say it’s just like the uk , because it isn’t at all) where not all states are equal so you can winning many states and still lose because it depends on its electoral college score.

in the uk stockton south has same parliamentary worth at a general election as Henley or Dundee namely 1 seat at Parliament ie one vote for the party’s leader. The one with most constituencies wins ( basically speaking).

but in the us each of the 50 states has a points score and they differ massively.
 
Last edited:
Here are the scores


As you can see they differ massively so you target what you need to win to get that magic number in a FPTP bi party system ( again basically speaking) 1591460462341.png
 
zzzzz said:
Thanks. But why does he get continued support? Pretty sure he'll get another term.
I'm confused because It's at odds with the Amercans I've lived and worked with.

It's a place I love to visit but tbh I'd think twice about going back now.
Click to expand...
The US is deeply divided and partisan. I've been lucky enough to have worked in 33 different states, I'm in a white collar profession, but my roles out there brought me into contact with a lot of blue collar guys. I've spent a day in the passenger seat of an 18 wheel truck, and many days in meat packing plants, food distribution centres, warehouse floors and I lived in ones of the poorest cities with a 62% black population. I've been lucky to see a lot of american culture and life, while remaining british.

My observations are that there isn't a single answer. America really is a group of differing countries within a country. Life in Maryland is very different to life in Arkansas and in South Dakota and again in California. With differing local problems. The states that tend to swing elections are very much working class areas.

As an 'outside observer', I did note one key point, that the huge delineation between the rich, the middle class, the working class and the poor is extreme. The small % of rich are of course very rich, but even the middle classes are, by our standards extremely wealthy, with amazing standards of living. There are huge swathes of these people in this middle class band.

The drop off from a middle class life to a working class blue colour life is huge in terms of wealth and standards of living. If you have a blue collar job, you don't have spare income, you are likely to have no access to higher education for you and your children, you live paycheck to paycheck, while your boss drives in to work in his 1977 restored Firebird, has a holiday home at the beach and sends his kids to private school.

The poor foods you consume as a working class person make you ill, then the medicare package drains you in excess payments. You die and have nothing to hand to your kids. The system drains you and disposes of you. These are probably the largest subset of people. They were traditionally democrats, wanting union protection and I guess in some ways they thought at last Obama is going to get us good healthcare, and I might not have to make that decision about feeding my kids and paying for my health insurance. But, Obama never got a blue senate to help him deliver his social policies fully. The working classes were convinced the Dems were a fraud, rather than the fact he needed senate support from Republicans to make his changes.

When Trump came along offering a persuasive alternative, many of the people in this sector felt "what have we got to lose". Trump spoke in simple terms, terms that were easy to understand. He outboxed Hillary with his vicious tongue in the media, that gave the illusion that he was fighting against the establishment, which was of course a lie.

How will this play out? Well I'm not convinced that Trump will win a second term. I feel a sea change. The youth have always been disenfranchised from voting, but they have become engaged, that is never a good thing for conservatives. Hilary won more votes than Trump last time, so the starting point for Dems is strong. Second term presidents rarely improve their standing. Add on to that the absolute horror show that is Trumps presidency and he has alienated a lot of people, and a lot of 'Kingmakers'. Churches are on the attack against him, unions, even some of his faithful media are wavering. Now the NFL have abandoned him and the odd Republican senator. He could take a pasting at the polls.

<LONG RAMBLE - SORRY>
 
another major point I wanted to make is that there are a lot of people that are partisan and never change, and some of that on the republican side is FOMO - Fear Of Missing Out. If you stop voting Republican and start voting Dem, then you will get taxed more and miss out on your chance of becoming that great American Dream 'millionaire'. That is a very real thing, even though 99.9% of the population will never achieve that, they fear that the chance will be taken away by socialism.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top