The United ***show of America

another major point I wanted to make is that there are a lot of people that are partisan and never change, and some of that on the republican side if FOMO - Fear Of Missing Out. If you stop voting Republican and start voting Dem, then you will get taxed more and miss out on your chance of becoming that great American Dream 'millionaire'. That is a very real thing, even though 99.9% of the population will never achieve that, they fear that the chance will be taken away by socialism.
I disagree as Traditionally Americans regularly spread their votes across parties say vote in dem in senate rep in house and dem for gov but then rep for pres etc

plus given the endless elected positions in the us as well where everyone from police chief to rat cat catcher seems to on the ballot sheets.

I do think trump has ended this trend though.
 
I disagree as Traditionally Americans regularly spread their votes across parties say vote in dem in senate rep in house and dem for gov but then rep for pres etc

plus given the endless elected positions in the us as well where everyone from police chief to rat cat catcher seems to on the ballot sheets.

I do think trump has ended this trend though.
I'm sure some do, but I've met a lot that are vehemently anti-Dem because socialism is theft, they wouldn't vote a Dem into president of their local bookclub let alone any actual position. Socialism is often equated to communism in the US, which is just bizarre. However the lack of balance around the dangers of libertarianism and free market economics is more disturbing.
 
Socialism is often equated to communism in the US,
Hence the term socialist medicine for the nhs etc you are right but democrats are hardly socialists are they ( Bernie excluded)

the fact is there no red and blue lines in the us more light blue and dark blue. Tory and Tory light is more apt.
 
The US is deeply divided and partisan. I've been lucky enough to have worked in 33 different states, I'm in a white collar profession, but my roles out there brought me into contact with a lot of blue collar guys. I've spent a day in the passenger seat of an 18 wheel truck, and many days in meat packing plants, food distribution centres, warehouse floors and I lived in ones of the poorest cities with a 62% black population. I've been lucky to see a lot of american culture and life, while remaining british.

My observations are that there isn't a single answer. America really is a group of differing countries within a country. Life in Maryland is very different to life in Arkansas and in South Dakota and again in California. With differing local problems. The states that tend to swing elections are very much working class areas.

As an 'outside observer', I did note one key point, that the huge delineation between the rich, the middle class, the working class and the poor is extreme. The small % of rich are of course very rich, but even the middle classes are, by our standards extremely wealthy, with amazing standards of living. There are huge swathes of these people in this middle class band.

The drop off from a middle class life to a working class blue colour life is huge in terms of wealth and standards of living. If you have a blue collar job, you don't have spare income, you are likely to have no access to higher education for you and your children, you live paycheck to paycheck, while your boss drives in to work in his 1977 restored Firebird, has a holiday home at the beach and sends his kids to private school.

The poor foods you consume as a working class person make you ill, then the medicare package drains you in excess payments. You die and have nothing to hand to your kids. The system drains you and disposes of you. These are probably the largest subset of people. They were traditionally democrats, wanting union protection and I guess in some ways they thought at last Obama is going to get us good healthcare, and I might not have to make that decision about feeding my kids and paying for my health insurance. But, Obama never got a blue senate to help him deliver his social policies fully. The working classes were convinced the Dems were a fraud, rather than the fact he needed senate support from Republicans to make his changes.

When Trump came along offering a persuasive alternative, many of the people in this sector felt "what have we got to lose". Trump spoke in simple terms, terms that were easy to understand. He outboxed Hillary with his vicious tongue in the media, that gave the illusion that he was fighting against the establishment, which was of course a lie.

How will this play out? Well I'm not convinced that Trump will win a second term. I feel a sea change. The youth have always been disenfranchised from voting, but they have become engaged, that is never a good thing for conservatives. Hilary won more votes than Trump last time, so the starting point for Dems is strong. Second term presidents rarely improve their standing. Add on to that the absolute horror show that is Trumps presidency and he has alienated a lot of people, and a lot of 'Kingmakers'. Churches are on the attack against him, unions, even some of his faithful media are wavering. Now the NFL have abandoned him and the odd Republican senator. He could take a pasting at the polls.

<LONG RAMBLE - SORRY>
Thanks for that. You're clearly far better qualified to comment to me and I really hope you are right about Trump. Just seems to me that no matter what he does he still gets away with it. Looking at his charge sheet it's astonishing he is still running at around a 40%+ approval rating.
 
Thanks for that. You're clearly far better qualified to comment to me and I really hope you are right about Trump. Just seems to me that no matter what he does he still gets away with it. Looking at his charge sheet it's astonishing he is still running at around a 40%+ approval rating.
haha, not sure I'm that qualified, just my own rambling opinions, but I totally get the astonishment that he got in and is still in with a shout at a second term
 
This is a bit long but if you can bear with it, it think it's worth a read. It's an opinion piece by George Conway, a lifelong Republican but (obviously) vehemently anti-Trump, despite being married to "Counselor to the President" Kellyanne Conway.

"Just as crises can provide a test of anyone’s character, they do so especially with presidents. We stand burdened with watching a president fail his test, in cataclysmic fashion, and with the nation suffering the consequences.

Until three brief months ago, President Trump never faced a serious crisis, at least one not of his own making. But now he has faced two, and is failing two, in short order: the CoVid-19 pandemic, with its concomitant economic devastation; and now social unrest, and rioting, stemming from the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis police custody.

Lacking in humanity, Trump has had no idea how to handle either one. He has responded to the police-brutality protests only by making matters worse. Faced with circumstances warranting calls for calm and restraint, he answered with almost sadistic invitations for more violence, fulminating about “THUGS” and extrajudicially “shooting” looters, issuing threats about “vicious dogs” and “ominous weapons,” and celebrating “Domination” and “Overwhelming force.”

Tweeting about “LAW AND ORDER!” and “Anarchists,” and ignoring the distinction between peaceful, aggrieved citizens and the relatively few lawbreakers among them, Trump castigated governors in a phone call as “weak,” effectively upbraiding them for not spraying more fuel on the fire. And then, after he was wounded by mockery about having been hustled to a White House bunker as protests mounted, his administration used chemicals and projectile munitions to disperse peaceful demonstrators so that this morally deficient, scripturally ignorant payer-off-of-porn-stars could awkwardly pose with a borrowed Bible as a stalwart defender of public order and Christian values in front of a Lafayette Square church.

And all with little more than token acknowledgment of the tragedy that triggered it all, and of the righteous outrage that has caused the streets to fill. Little more than a few robotically recited lines tucked into a speech at NASA about a rocket launch, and a speech at the White House that prefaced his parade to the church. He made a sympathy phone call to Floyd’s family, but the dead man’s brother, Philonise, said it went by so quickly that he was barely given a chance to speak.

So, too, with CoVid-19: The pandemic response sorely needed a leader with competence and intellectual understanding, guided by a basic humanity. Instead, Trump began with denials, lies, delusions — cases going down to zero, and the deadly pathogen would miraculously disappear. He veered from extreme to extreme: from CoVid-19 as a flu-like problem to a national emergency, from calls for precautions to demands for “liberation” from them, with miracle cures sprinkled about along the way.

Erratic press briefings featured Trump blathering and preening, and treating government experts cavalierly, as if he were on a phone call with Philonise Floyd. The briefings mercifully ended after Trump apparently realized they did him political harm.

And all without appreciation by the president of the human toll exacted not only by the virus itself, but also from his own inattentiveness to it. On Memorial Day weekend, as the death count approached 100,000, he indulged himself with two days of golf. When asked during a March virus briefing a simple question that any humane politician could have knocked out of the park — “What do you say to Americans who are watching you right now and are scared?” — he responded not to the American people, but with an angry attack on the journalist: “I’d say that you’re a terrible reporter, that’s what I’d say.”

So much of Trump’s inaptness and ineptness in these and other matters stems from his exceptional narcissism, and the empathic deficit that attends it. Few who have considered it would today doubt, as Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) so perceptively put it in 2016, that Trump was “a narcissist at a level I don’t think this country has ever seen.”

But it’s more than just narcissism that drives this failing, flailing president. However difficult they can be, even extreme narcissists can have consciences. They don’t necessarily cast aside behavioral standards or laws, or lie ceaselessly with reckless abandon. Trump’s behavior is conscienceless, showing utter disregard for the safety of others, consistent irresponsibility, callousness, cynicism and disrespect of other human beings. Contempt for truth and honesty, and for norms, rules and laws. A complete inability to feel remorse, or guilt. As a New Yorker profile of Trump put it nearly a quarter-century ago, Trump lives “an existence unmolested by the rumbling of a soul.” That’s Donald Trump’s problem yesterday, today and tomorrow.

It’s our problem, too, for now: We remain governed by a soulless man with a broken mind. The damage will continue, and it won’t stop until voters end it. Come November, it will be up to the eligible human population of this country to look to their souls, their consciences, their humanity — and to cast their votes for one of their own."
 
The US is deeply divided and partisan. I've been lucky enough to have worked in 33 different states, I'm in a white collar profession, but my roles out there brought me into contact with a lot of blue collar guys. I've spent a day in the passenger seat of an 18 wheel truck, and many days in meat packing plants, food distribution centres, warehouse floors and I lived in ones of the poorest cities with a 62% black population. I've been lucky to see a lot of american culture and life, while remaining british.

My observations are that there isn't a single answer. America really is a group of differing countries within a country. Life in Maryland is very different to life in Arkansas and in South Dakota and again in California. With differing local problems. The states that tend to swing elections are very much working class areas.

As an 'outside observer', I did note one key point, that the huge delineation between the rich, the middle class, the working class and the poor is extreme. The small % of rich are of course very rich, but even the middle classes are, by our standards extremely wealthy, with amazing standards of living. There are huge swathes of these people in this middle class band.

The drop off from a middle class life to a working class blue colour life is huge in terms of wealth and standards of living. If you have a blue collar job, you don't have spare income, you are likely to have no access to higher education for you and your children, you live paycheck to paycheck, while your boss drives in to work in his 1977 restored Firebird, has a holiday home at the beach and sends his kids to private school.

The poor foods you consume as a working class person make you ill, then the medicare package drains you in excess payments. You die and have nothing to hand to your kids. The system drains you and disposes of you. These are probably the largest subset of people. They were traditionally democrats, wanting union protection and I guess in some ways they thought at last Obama is going to get us good healthcare, and I might not have to make that decision about feeding my kids and paying for my health insurance. But, Obama never got a blue senate to help him deliver his social policies fully. The working classes were convinced the Dems were a fraud, rather than the fact he needed senate support from Republicans to make his changes.

When Trump came along offering a persuasive alternative, many of the people in this sector felt "what have we got to lose". Trump spoke in simple terms, terms that were easy to understand. He outboxed Hillary with his vicious tongue in the media, that gave the illusion that he was fighting against the establishment, which was of course a lie.

How will this play out? Well I'm not convinced that Trump will win a second term. I feel a sea change. The youth have always been disenfranchised from voting, but they have become engaged, that is never a good thing for conservatives. Hilary won more votes than Trump last time, so the starting point for Dems is strong. Second term presidents rarely improve their standing. Add on to that the absolute horror show that is Trumps presidency and he has alienated a lot of people, and a lot of 'Kingmakers'. Churches are on the attack against him, unions, even some of his faithful media are wavering. Now the NFL have abandoned him and the odd Republican senator. He could take a pasting at the polls.

<LONG RAMBLE - SORRY>

Really interesting read mart, it's quite a life you've had out there.

I would say 1 thing to nitpick... Obama did have the senate and Congress but failed to bring healthcare through.
He was unfortunately a very bad president, Jimmy dore covers this very well.
He actually is the reason we have trump now because so many people bought into his message felt so let down by him thus the substantial group of Obama - Trump voters.

The difference between biden and trump will be paper thin also, it's essentially their handlers that call the shots.. Biden wants to shoot you people in the leg which I guess is slightly better. 🙈
 
The difference between biden and trump will be paper thin also, it's essentially their handlers that call the shots.. Biden wants to shoot you people in the leg which I guess is slightly better. 🙈
they have a right and a far right option in america, it's much worse than here. But it's where we have been headed for a long time. The demonisation of socialism, the concept that tax is theft, the idolisation of the rich as 'wealth creators' and unions as 'dangerously powerful'. These are all the things that were spouted in the 70s onwards and now those views are rife here.
 
This is a bit long but if you can bear with it, it think it's worth a read. It's an opinion piece by George Conway, a lifelong Republican but (obviously) vehemently anti-Trump, despite being married to "Counselor to the President" Kellyanne Conway.

"Just as crises can provide a test of anyone’s character, they do so especially with presidents. We stand burdened with watching a president fail his test, in cataclysmic fashion, and with the nation suffering the consequences.

Until three brief months ago, President Trump never faced a serious crisis, at least one not of his own making. But now he has faced two, and is failing two, in short order: the CoVid-19 pandemic, with its concomitant economic devastation; and now social unrest, and rioting, stemming from the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis police custody.

Lacking in humanity, Trump has had no idea how to handle either one. He has responded to the police-brutality protests only by making matters worse. Faced with circumstances warranting calls for calm and restraint, he answered with almost sadistic invitations for more violence, fulminating about “THUGS” and extrajudicially “shooting” looters, issuing threats about “vicious dogs” and “ominous weapons,” and celebrating “Domination” and “Overwhelming force.”

Tweeting about “LAW AND ORDER!” and “Anarchists,” and ignoring the distinction between peaceful, aggrieved citizens and the relatively few lawbreakers among them, Trump castigated governors in a phone call as “weak,” effectively upbraiding them for not spraying more fuel on the fire. And then, after he was wounded by mockery about having been hustled to a White House bunker as protests mounted, his administration used chemicals and projectile munitions to disperse peaceful demonstrators so that this morally deficient, scripturally ignorant payer-off-of-porn-stars could awkwardly pose with a borrowed Bible as a stalwart defender of public order and Christian values in front of a Lafayette Square church.

And all with little more than token acknowledgment of the tragedy that triggered it all, and of the righteous outrage that has caused the streets to fill. Little more than a few robotically recited lines tucked into a speech at NASA about a rocket launch, and a speech at the White House that prefaced his parade to the church. He made a sympathy phone call to Floyd’s family, but the dead man’s brother, Philonise, said it went by so quickly that he was barely given a chance to speak.

So, too, with CoVid-19: The pandemic response sorely needed a leader with competence and intellectual understanding, guided by a basic humanity. Instead, Trump began with denials, lies, delusions — cases going down to zero, and the deadly pathogen would miraculously disappear. He veered from extreme to extreme: from CoVid-19 as a flu-like problem to a national emergency, from calls for precautions to demands for “liberation” from them, with miracle cures sprinkled about along the way.

Erratic press briefings featured Trump blathering and preening, and treating government experts cavalierly, as if he were on a phone call with Philonise Floyd. The briefings mercifully ended after Trump apparently realized they did him political harm.

And all without appreciation by the president of the human toll exacted not only by the virus itself, but also from his own inattentiveness to it. On Memorial Day weekend, as the death count approached 100,000, he indulged himself with two days of golf. When asked during a March virus briefing a simple question that any humane politician could have knocked out of the park — “What do you say to Americans who are watching you right now and are scared?” — he responded not to the American people, but with an angry attack on the journalist: “I’d say that you’re a terrible reporter, that’s what I’d say.”

So much of Trump’s inaptness and ineptness in these and other matters stems from his exceptional narcissism, and the empathic deficit that attends it. Few who have considered it would today doubt, as Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) so perceptively put it in 2016, that Trump was “a narcissist at a level I don’t think this country has ever seen.”

But it’s more than just narcissism that drives this failing, flailing president. However difficult they can be, even extreme narcissists can have consciences. They don’t necessarily cast aside behavioral standards or laws, or lie ceaselessly with reckless abandon. Trump’s behavior is conscienceless, showing utter disregard for the safety of others, consistent irresponsibility, callousness, cynicism and disrespect of other human beings. Contempt for truth and honesty, and for norms, rules and laws. A complete inability to feel remorse, or guilt. As a New Yorker profile of Trump put it nearly a quarter-century ago, Trump lives “an existence unmolested by the rumbling of a soul.” That’s Donald Trump’s problem yesterday, today and tomorrow.

It’s our problem, too, for now: We remain governed by a soulless man with a broken mind. The damage will continue, and it won’t stop until voters end it. Come November, it will be up to the eligible human population of this country to look to their souls, their consciences, their humanity — and to cast their votes for one of their own."
A good read.
 
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