The pandemic rages on while our 'government' do nothing

[Warwickboro]

Don't start with the 'with or from' rubbish please. Covid is not mentioned on a death certificate unless it has been the cause of death or a significant contributory factor.

If someone is in hospital and tests positive for covid, but dies of a completely unrelated cause, then covid is not put on the death certificate and it doesn't count in the covid deaths figure.

Sherlock, there are other people who have suffered at the hands of over zealous restrictions. People should not hang their heads in shame. Whilst is has been horrible and scary, lives have also been ruined by lockdowns etc all. as ive said before masks, hepa filters and vaccines all fine, anything else and there are 2 sides to the argument whether you like it or not. It's not as simple as "anyone who doesn't believe in restrictions or protections (whatever description you prefer) is incapable of compassion", they just have a different perspective on this. Perhaps some may think you have no compassion for the young lives destroyed by earlier restrictions, but I would tell those people that this isn't the case and you just have a different perspective.

 

[sherlock]

Sherlock, there are other people who have suffered at the hands of over zealous restrictions. People should not hang their heads in shame. Whilst is has been horrible and scary, lives have also been ruined by lockdowns etc all. as ive said before masks, hepa filters and vaccines all fine, anything else and there are 2 sides to the argument whether you like it or not. It's not as simple as "anyone who doesn't believe in restrictions or protections (whatever description you prefer) is incapable of compassion", they just have a different perspective on this. Perhaps some may think you have no compassion for the young lives destroyed by earlier restrictions, but I would tell those people that this isn't the case and you just have a different perspective.

I don't know how many times I can say this, I don't want another lockdown.

Read the article, the young lady writing doesn't want another lockdown.

What people do want is not to be made to feel their lives are dispensable just so some people aren't inconvenienced.

There are genuinely people who feel it is worse for them to have to wear a mask in a crowded place than it is for the CEV to literally fear for their lives every time they go out. Those people absolutely SHOULD hang their heads in shame.

 

[Funky_Chicken]

 

[Boroboyyo]

The current hospitalisation figures would beg to differ.

Deaths too. Delta took 7 months to kill the same number of people who died from Omicron in 6 months.

The mild narrative is a myth.

As I said earlier , being in hospital with covid is not the same as because of covid

If the hospitalisations were all because of covid, you would find icu admissions to be directly proportional to hospital admissions. They aren’t , someone else on here has largely pointed out they are stable . They haven’t been directly proportional since the vaccines have been introduced.

I’ll ask, what do you propose , restrictions back ? Do we just bring back restrictions every new wave ? When is a good time to keep them off even with a new wave ?

I’m currently a private tutor but moving into cybersecurity soon after my finishing my masters . I had over 50% of my income wiped off from them closing schools and cancelling exams for a levels and GCSEs . I worried I wasn’t going to keep income coming where I could pay for bills . I’m not the only one . Restrictions don’t seem a big deal to many but they can cripple business owners. I wasn’t entitled to employment support as I only just came out of teaching at that point and was self employed for less than a year so hadn’t paid any tax yet with my business so they couldn’t determine what I was entitled to

 

[sherlock]

As I said earlier , being in hospital with covid is not the same as because of covid

If the hospitalisations were all because of covid, you would find icu admissions to be directly proportional to hospital admissions. They aren’t , someone else on here has largely pointed out they are stable . They haven’t been directly proportional since the vaccines have been introduced.

I’ll ask, what do you propose , restrictions back ? Do we just bring back restrictions every new wave ? When is a good time to keep them off even with a new wave ?

I’m currently a private tutor but moving into cybersecurity soon after my finishing my masters . I had over 50% of my income wiped off from them closing schools and cancelling exams for a levels and GCSEs . I worried I wasn’t going to keep income coming where I could pay for bills . I’m not the only one . Restrictions don’t seem a big deal to many but they can cripple business owners. I wasn’t entitled to employment support as I only just came out of teaching at that point and was self employed for less than a year so hadn’t paid any tax yet with my business so they couldn’t determine what I was entitled to

I've already posted what I propose. Not one thing that could be termed as a restriction, not one thing that would affect your livelihood and not one thing that would affect anyone's ability to run their business.

 

[Warwickboro]

I've already posted what I propose. Not one thing that could be termed as a restriction, not one thing that would affect your livelihood and not one thing that would affect anyone's ability to run their business.

Yes but sherlock, whilst we have established that we both agree your suggestionsare sensible. Recent History overwhelmingly tells us it almost never ends at the "protections" you are suggesting, which once again I agree are sensible. The first time a mask mandate was implemented a lockdown followed very soon after, its almost like Indy sage are waiting for the first deck of cards to fall In order to roll out their real agenda, which is clearly zero covid. I whole heartedly know that your intentions are good and even sensible, unfortunately the same cannot be said for some of these other organisations, who do not have a care in the world for anyone who has suffered at the hands of the barbaric restrictions that people suffered through, and what makes it worse for me is that some of these sufferers were children like that poor little boy from Birmingham. My issue is that it never ends at the point thats suggested, it always has to go further, because let's face it, once you mandate masks, and install hepa filters and roll out jab 4, if transmission doesn't fo down you can't then just say 'well we tried" good luck everyone can you?

 

[sherlock]

Yes but sherlock, whilst we have established that we both agree your suggestionsare sensible. Recent History overwhelmingly tells us it almost never ends at the "protections" you are suggesting, which once again I agree are sensible. The first time a mask mandate was implemented a lockdown followed very soon after, its almost like Indy sage are waiting for the first deck of cards to fall In order to roll out their real agenda, which is clearly zero covid. I whole heartedly know that your intentions are good and even sensible, unfortunately the same cannot be said for some of these other organisations, who do not have a care in the world for anyone who has suffered at the hands of the barbaric restrictions that people suffered through, and what makes it worse for me is that some of these sufferers were children like that poor little boy from Birmingham. My issue is that it never ends at the point thats suggested, it always has to go further, because let's face it, once you mandate masks, and install hepa filters and roll out jab 4, if transmission doesn't fo down you can't then just say 'well we tried" good luck everyone can you?

Why?

We are currently saying 'well we didn't try, good luck everyone'. What's the difference?

As far as zero covid, only an idiot would think that possible now. It was, right at the start, it isn't now.

The game changer will be if the sterilising vaccines being worked on are effective. That's how this pandemic truly ends. Until that time sensible protections should be employed.

 

[JM14]

Don't start with the 'with or from' rubbish please. Covid is not mentioned on a death certificate unless it has been the cause of death or a significant contributory factor.

If someone is in hospital and tests positive for covid, but dies of a completely unrelated cause, then covid is not put on the death certificate and it doesn't count in the covid deaths figure.

Government website statistics show deaths within 28 days of a positive test, so no real way to know if that is with or from Covid

Deaths seem to be counted at around 150-200 daily, patients on ventilation has remained fairly consistent over the last few months between 180-250, current number in ICU presumably including this figure is 175. That doesn’t really suggest 150-200 people are dying each day from Covid alone, surely if that was the case then ICU figures would be significantly higher

 

[sherlock]

Government website statistics show deaths within 28 days of a positive test, so no real way to know if that is with or from Covid

Deaths seem to be counted at around 150-200 daily, patients on ventilation has remained fairly consistent over the last few months between 180-250, current number in ICU presumably including this figure is 175. That doesn’t really suggest 150-200 people are dying each day from Covid alone, surely if that was the case then ICU figures would be significantly higher

ONS figures show only those deaths with covid on the death certificate.

 

[Warwickboro]

Why?

We are currently saying 'well we didn't try, good luck everyone'. What's the difference?

As far as zero covid, only an idiot would think that possible now. It was, right at the start, it isn't now.

The game changer will be if the sterilising vaccines being worked on are effective. That's how this pandemic truly ends. Until that time sensible protections should be employed.

Sherlock, the pandemic was going to "truly end after the first 15 million CEV were single jabbed, the fact that we have now delivered 130 odd million jabs, we have powerful anti viral, hospital treatments are now far more advanced than they previously were, we've had lockdowns, tiered systems, "protections", and het presto were right back at the start of the loop. Trust me, TCell vaccines will be the next hope, I've read about vaccines in a pill form, tell vaccines delivery through a spring mounted system to tackle needle phobia and activate tcells against a broad church of all corona viruses. This and everything else will all lead us back to this thread in 2 years to have the same discussion all over again, o. Sorry sherlock, we can dampen this viruses I.pact on the body through vaccines, but transmission can't be controlled in any sustainable way and that much is clear.

 

[T_A_D]

It's true. Infections are higher than ever according to the ONS. You have evidence to the contrary?

The above is from the latest ONS infection survey, think another one is out tomorrow. Are there other ONS figures you are referring to? The claim in the video you linked to earlier in the thread mentions highest ever infections and references the ZOE study. Sadly that now has issues (though was useful at the outset of the epidemic).

 

[Andy_W]

I think they're a little early calling it post-pandemic, but we do seem to be on the exit waves, or on the exit of the risk curve. I can understand what they're saying mind (even though it's not strictly true), as I think it's because we're probably through >99% of the damage and because the IFR is now something like 0.04%. In 2020 and the latter part of 2021 it was around 1%, and more importantly in 20 and 21 it had potential to overcome healthcare, if we took no action, it can't rally do that now, unless something changes drastically. Every time it's changed before, we've been more and more protected.

ONS is weeks behind, and BA5 is heading to nothing, all each variant has done is find various gaps, and now there are not many gaps left. Some clever folk on twitter has spotted the turn in the most recent BA5 wave two weeks ago, from the hospitalisation growth rate.



There's hardly anyone left to infect now (who hasn't already had it), and most have had three jabs and multiple exposures, so are as safe as they're ever going to be. It's probably in the best interest of those who have not had it or who are vulnerable that we get through BA5 quick, as it can't be stopped and prolonging risk makes no sense.

The world is now on roughly the same daily deaths as it was when the pandemic was declared in March 20 (and when it was declared, many multiples more were missed).

The wave we're on now is BA5, and the countries which got hit with that before us are pretty much on nothing now, which is exactly where we're heading.

I suppose there's much bigger fish to fry now, and although it's still a pandemic there has to come a risk level where you have to move on to something else, and declare us out of the Public Health Emergency of International Concern (Pheic). This may stay longer internationally, where they're still vaccinating etc.

 

[sherlock]

Sherlock, the pandemic was going to "truly end after the first 15 million CEV were single jabbed, the fact that we have now delivered 130 odd million jabs, we have powerful anti viral, hospital treatments are now far more advanced than they previously were, we've had lockdowns, tiered systems, "protections", and het presto were right back at the start of the loop. Trust me, TCell vaccines will be the next hope, I've read about vaccines in a pill form, tell vaccines delivery through a spring mounted system to tackle needle phobia and activate tcells against a broad church of all corona viruses. This and everything else will all lead us back to this thread in 2 years to have the same discussion all over again, o. Sorry sherlock, we can dampen this viruses I.pact on the body through vaccines, but transmission can't be controlled in any sustainable way and that much is clear.

You can't possibly know that though. At one point we were told any effective vaccine was unlikely. We have one that does have an impact, albeit not perfect. A sterilising vaccine may be possible and is being worked on. I don't know if it will work. You don't know that it won't.

 

[JM14]

ONS figures show only those deaths with covid on the death certificate.

ONS showing 500 deaths last week but that still doesn’t exactly add up with the ICU numbers. That would suggest everyone in ICU is dying plus plenty more that aren’t even making it that far, that makes no sense at all

 

[sherlock]

View attachment 41757
The above is from the latest ONS infection survey, think another one is out tomorrow. Are there other ONS figures you are referring to? The claim in the video you linked to earlier in the thread mentions highest ever infections and references the ZOE study. Sadly that now has issues (though was useful at the outset of the epidemic).

Percentage figures aren't case numbers though, so not sure what relevance those graphs have?

Try this:

 

[T_A_D]

Percentage figures aren't case numbers though, so not sure what relevance those graphs have?

Try this:

View attachment 41759

You said ONS figures. Do you have ONS figures that show the highest cases ever? I have linked from the ONS infection survey.

You're mentioning the ZOE app, this methodology replies on users reporting symptoms (ONS doesn't). Covid now has many symptoms which overlap with other respiratory virus'. A major issue of ZOE now is that there are now very few users/reporters in some parts of the country.....


It used to be useful but isn't now.

 

[sherlock]

You know what, reading back through this thread, the attitudes of some are so depressing.

Over two years of shielding almost broke me but according to some, as one of the CEV population my life is worthless anyway.

Might as well just go and kill myself right now instead of waiting for the inevitable consequence of having to try and survive in such a society huh….

 

[Warwickboro]

You know what, reading back through this thread, the attitudes of some are so depressing.

Over two years of shielding almost broke me but according to some, as one of the CEV population my life is worthless anyway.

Might as well just go and kill myself right now instead of waiting for the inevitable consequence of having to try and survive in such a society huh….

Sherlock this isn't true, all lives are valued, it upsets me that you feel this way. I agree with you, protect as much as possible through non invasive measures, as long as it ends at non I vasive measures then I'm happy. This last 2 years has been hell for a lot of people, I'm CV (granted not CEV) so I see your point, but I can also see how non CEV or CV also want to try and get theirs and their families live back on track as bet they can. I certainly wish you happiness and health as I'm sure others do. I hope a new game changing moment cones over the hill, and I hope my pessimism hasn't been too damaging for you.