The New Beatles Single

The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
It's not a Johnson V's Lennon contest, I could have picked any number of people, it was an example.
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well why bring up Johnson? I mean I'll refer you back to your post this morning on another thread where you lambasted people for bringing politics into threads. Just a little hypocritical of you to do exactly the same here.

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The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
It's just that you in particular seem to be very keen to defend Lennon because he wrote a few good tunes, and said a few nice things.
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He wrote some great songs, if you need to disparage his lifetime of work as 'a few good tunes' then that simply shows an inherent bias. I also didn't ignore them, in fact I drew attention to some of the worst parts of his personality such as his violence to those around him. That isn't ignoring them. His behaviour at times was abhrent, but he did bring some good into the world.

If you feel I should be giving kudos to Johnson, then explain to me the wonderful light he has brought to the world and I'll address it honestly. But as I have already stated, Johnson is responsible for many deaths, how many is Lennon responsible for? His behaviour isn't exactly Pete Doherty, Michael Jackson, or Chuck Berry. His beliefs seemed at kilter with his actions at times, largely due to drink and drug issues. Not sure that can be said of Jackson, Ian Watkins, Gary Glitter or Chuck Berry as an example.
 
BoroMart said:
well why bring up Johnson? I mean I'll refer you back to your post this morning on another thread where you lambasted people for bringing politics into threads. Just a little hypocritical of you to do exactly the same here.

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He wrote some great songs, if you need to disparage his lifetime of work as 'a few good tunes' then that simply shows an inherent bias. I also didn't ignore them, in fact I drew attention to some of the worst parts of his personality such as his violence to those around him. That isn't ignoring them. His behaviour at times was abhrent, but he did bring some good into the world.

If you feel I should be giving kudos to Johnson, then explain to me the wonderful light he has brought to the world and I'll address it honestly. But as I have already stated, Johnson is responsible for many deaths, how many is Lennon responsible for? His behaviour isn't exactly Pete Doherty, Michael Jackson, or Chuck Berry. His beliefs seemed at kilter with his actions at times, largely due to drink and drug issues. Not sure that can be said of Jackson, Ian Watkins, Gary Glitter or Chuck Berry as an example.
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As I say, I brought Johnson into it because he was the first person to spring to mind. It could have been anyone you're not willing to give the benefit of the doubt to (if I trawled the board for long enough) Joey Barton perhaps? - it was an illustrative example to question why Lennon gets a pass and others dont.

Interesting you choose Pete Doherty into it, I dont recall him knocking about his wife or bullying his own child.

You and I are never going to agree, you think Lennon's tunes, or the fact he acknowledged his horrific personality traits, somehow give him a pass because he wrote good songs. I dont.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
As I say, I brought Johnson into it because he was the first person to spring to mind. It could have been anyone you're not willing to give the benefit of the doubt to
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Now that's an ad hominem argument if ever I saw one.

Why do you have to compare to anyone? We can make a case for person A to be better than person B til the cows come home it proves absolutely nothing. No one is perfect, we all have flaws, it isn't a straight hierarchy.

The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Joey Barton perhaps?
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15 years ago I did give Barton the benefit of the doubt, I even said on the old board that with the right mentor to put him on the straight and narrow he would be a good player for us. But as the failed behaviours wracked up the balance of his personality flaws quickly outweighed his effort as a player. So yes, I did give him leeway and a chance of redemption, he has never really changed his ways, never shown remorse.

The violence and abuse in Lennon's life as I understand it was gone in his final years, in fact I'm not aware that he beat yoko at all. He stated that the reason he wants peace and treating everyone better is because of his own actions in his youth. He accepted his failings as a person, improved himself and tried to be better which is all we can ask. I don't put him on a pedastal as a human being, but I'll be fair and honest.

The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Interesting you choose Pete Doherty into it, I dont recall him knocking about his wife or bullying his own child.
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I do recall him getting his bouncers to throw his mate off a 3rd floor balcony and then stepping over him and laughing as he lay there dying, far worse than anything Lennon did, far worse.

The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
You and I are never going to agree, you think Lennon's tunes, or the fact he acknowledged his horrific personality traits, somehow give him a pass because he wrote good songs. I dont.
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except that isn't what I said, I didn't say it gave him a pass, but we all have failures in our character, and Lennon accepted and tried to better them, despite his copious drug taking.
 
Just had a listen to it. Hmmm, if it were Jo Schmo and The Nobodies it wouldn't warrant a mention outside the clique of Jo Schmo obsessives. Quite unprepossessing.

However the remastered version of "Love Me Do" is worth listening to. They have done an amazing job cleaning it up. It's only just over 2 minutes long and perfect, listen to how clean the harmonica is.
 
BoroMart said:
I do recall him getting his bouncers to throw his mate off a 3rd floor balcony and then stepping over him and laughing as he lay there dying, far worse than anything Lennon did, far worse.
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Apart from there's no hard evidence that's what happened, save the documentary that used his name to attract publicity. You've also added the laughing bit for a bit of dramatic effect I think.

I think Lennon is scum who wrote some good tunes, you dont let's leave it there.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Apart from there's no hard evidence that's what happened, save the documentary that used his name to attract publicity. You've also added the laughing bit for a bit of dramatic effect I think.

I think Lennon is scum who wrote some good tunes, you dont let's leave it there.
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TBF there’s not that much HARD evidence that John used to slap Cynthia about is there? I know it’s widely documented, but similar to how Jimmy Page took the virginity of a 13 year old, it’s never going to go punished. I don’t see a huge difference if this is about hard evidence.
 
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The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Apart from there's no hard evidence that's what happened, save the documentary that used his name to attract publicity. You've also added the laughing bit for a bit of dramatic effect I think.

I think Lennon is scum who wrote some good tunes, you dont let's leave it there.
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There plenty of evidence to support it, he absolutely stepped over his mates body as he lay there dying, there is cctv footage of that, didn’t even bother calling an ambulance for him…that’s about as scummy as it gets.

His bouncer also bragged about it, handed himself and signed a confession to doing it….of course his lawyer explaining he’ll be in prison for life made him withdraw it

Not sure why you would give support to Doherty case with plenty of evidence while taking the exact opposite stance with just some individual word of mouth evidence on Lennon
 
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BoroMart said:
I do recall him getting his bouncers to throw his mate off a 3rd floor balcony and then stepping over him and laughing as he lay there dying, far worse than anything Lennon did, far worse.
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There's no evidence that he'd asked his bouncer to throw Mark Blanco off the balcony, or that he even saw what happened.

He ran from the scene but he wasn't laughing. One female witness said he was shocked and upset, and had to be told to leave.
 
parmoboy said:
There's no evidence that he'd asked his bouncer to throw Mark Blanco off the balcony, or that he even saw what happened.

He ran from the scene but he wasn't laughing. One female witness said he was shocked and upset, and had to be told to leave.
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There’s quite a bit of evidence actually, I mean his bouncer confessing. He was so shocked that he didn’t even call an ambulance. As has been pointed out there’s more evidence of than of Lennon being a violent abuser.

this is a thread about the Beatles music let’s get back to that, instead of derailing it into flimsy character assassinations of a dead man
 
BoroMart said:
There’s quite a bit of evidence actually, I mean his bouncer confessing. He was so shocked that he didn’t even call an ambulance. As has been pointed out there’s more evidence of than of Lennon being a violent abuser.

this is a thread about the Beatles music let’s get back to that, instead of derailing it into flimsy character assassinations of a dead man
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His bouncer confessing to it isn't evidence that Pete told him to do it.

Mark was thrown out of the flat and left the building. Minutes later he goes back inside the building. Naomi, who was at the party said that she couldn't account for the whereabouts of the bouncer and another guy called Paul Roundhill at this point, which strongly suggests that Pete must have been inside the flat and won't have seen what happened.

5:50 during this video Naomi mentions how upset Pete was. One of the female guests had already phoned for an ambulance.

 
Have to be honest, and I'm a huge Beatles fan, I think its 5hit. Really wish Paul wouldn't indulge this stuff.

Plus, I don't really feel totally down with it being a Beatles track given he wrote it in 1977-1979.
 
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