The first shot at China
- Thread starter Randy
- Start date
"This isn't a a case of US good, China bad"
Didn't say it was. The question is, would you rather live in a world in which the USA is the largest power, and who while being undoubtedly corrupt, never-the-less are at least in name governed by the rule of law; or where China is the major power; a country who currently completely ban free speech, track all their citizens (you must carry your phone), impose slavery on anyone who needs "re-education" and are completely corrupt (according to my Chinese friends). As often in life, it's a choice of the lesser of two evils.
"I don't buy they released this on the world to create devastation, and bought PPE to impact everyone else"
According to the South China Morning Post, the first person was treated on November 17th. Chinese doctors were warning their friends online in late December. They were reprimanded for publishing the information. As late as January 14th, the WHO were telling the world there was limited chance of person to person infection. This despite the fact that on January 7th President Xi had issued a containment order. On the 22nd of January, the CCP shut down all domestic travel to Wuhan. International travel continued and so the rest of the world became infected. By January 30th, the WHO was declaring a global health emergency. During January the CCP were buying up all the PPE they could find. They have 1.5 billion people, it's perfectly reasonable to buy all the PPE they could find.
But had they abided by the WHO's rules on disease notification and informed the world they had a new virus on their hands back in December, other countries could also have had a share of the PPE pie. Instead, most western nations had virtually no PPE at all for the first weeks of the pandemic, and many health workers were infected as a result. Pre-ordered shipments of PPE from China destined for countries around the world were commanded to turn around and return to home port.
I don't suppose China intended to wreak havoc on the world, they were meeting their strategic objective already. But it does appear that the international attention following Wuhan has exposed their long term strategy of "unrestricted warefare", and so they no longer make any secret of their intentions. Hence their actions in the South China Sea, incorporation of Hong Kong into China etc. The question is whether they will invade Taiwan. Perhaps if Biden wins the election.
Didn't say it was. The question is, would you rather live in a world in which the USA is the largest power, and who while being undoubtedly corrupt, never-the-less are at least in name governed by the rule of law; or where China is the major power; a country who currently completely ban free speech, track all their citizens (you must carry your phone), impose slavery on anyone who needs "re-education" and are completely corrupt (according to my Chinese friends). As often in life, it's a choice of the lesser of two evils.
"I don't buy they released this on the world to create devastation, and bought PPE to impact everyone else"
According to the South China Morning Post, the first person was treated on November 17th. Chinese doctors were warning their friends online in late December. They were reprimanded for publishing the information. As late as January 14th, the WHO were telling the world there was limited chance of person to person infection. This despite the fact that on January 7th President Xi had issued a containment order. On the 22nd of January, the CCP shut down all domestic travel to Wuhan. International travel continued and so the rest of the world became infected. By January 30th, the WHO was declaring a global health emergency. During January the CCP were buying up all the PPE they could find. They have 1.5 billion people, it's perfectly reasonable to buy all the PPE they could find.
But had they abided by the WHO's rules on disease notification and informed the world they had a new virus on their hands back in December, other countries could also have had a share of the PPE pie. Instead, most western nations had virtually no PPE at all for the first weeks of the pandemic, and many health workers were infected as a result. Pre-ordered shipments of PPE from China destined for countries around the world were commanded to turn around and return to home port.
I don't suppose China intended to wreak havoc on the world, they were meeting their strategic objective already. But it does appear that the international attention following Wuhan has exposed their long term strategy of "unrestricted warefare", and so they no longer make any secret of their intentions. Hence their actions in the South China Sea, incorporation of Hong Kong into China etc. The question is whether they will invade Taiwan. Perhaps if Biden wins the election.
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The Democrats were the party of slavery. Particularly southern Democrats, who effectively started the civil war, and who until the 1960's continued to practice segregation. I understand there's no documented record of a Republican slave owner. In fact it isn't so long ago that Senator Robert Byrd died, once a senior member of the KKK, and his funeral was attended by many of the current Democrat party leadership who in earlier years he had mentored. Byrd did renounce his membership of the KKK of course, and apologised many times but he was happy to use his membership to get elected back in the 1940's.
African American's invariably voted Republican up until World War II, when FDR introduced the New Deal, and at least in rhetorical terms spoke about civil rights. African Americans were granted the right to vote in 1866 with the 15th (?) Amendment, but in the south, which was mostly Democrat, rules were brought in that made it very difficult for African Americans to vote and segregation remained in place.
In 1957 Richard Nixon, then VP for Eisenhower, introduced the 1957 Civil Rights Act, intended to remove discrimination against African Americans, but it wasn't until 1964 that political circumstances allowed Lyndon B Johnson to fully implement rules prohibiting the suppression of voting rights.
Trump had double the support from African Americans in 2016 than his Republican predecessor - though still not much. (8% versus 4%). Since then he's passed the First Step Act, designed to help African Americans avoid prison or receive help once out of prison; introduced Opportunity Zones, designed to encourage investment in inner city areas; and provided long term funding for Historic Black Colleges. Because of these measures by December 2019 in some polling Trump had 30% support from African Americans.
Clearly, if he could win in 2016 with 8%, then even if he could carry half of that 30% to the ballot box he'd win at a canter in 2020. So the US media arm of the Democrat party has been pushing the racist mantra for several years in an effort to persuade African Americans not to vote for Trump. Personally I don't think Trump gives a **** either way - he's amoral and would do what he needed to win an election.
US voters have to vote between the incompetent and corrupt Joe Biden or the amoral Trump. Not a great choice. My sense is that whatever happens in the 2020 election the USA is basically f*cked. And the rest of us will suffer from the economic and political fallout.
ticker_tape
Well-known member
Rubbish as usual.
hopesoboro
Well-known member
Color? You're definitely American!(apologies if you're US born and bred and I've missed it)
hopesoboro
Well-known member
Unbelievable Jeff
BoroMart
Well-known member
well the direction of travel in the US is towards oppression on a russian scale. As I said before I would prefer to be in a world where the UK is part of the EU as a global power. Orwell was right, the world will turn into a number of superstates that constantly accuse and pressure each other to subjugate the people. Would I like the UK to be a vassal state of the US, the current direction of travel? Absolutely not it would be horrific for our prosperity as people. Would I like to be financially subjugated by china, No that would be disastrous. Would I like to form a pact with similar sized nations with similar ethics, sure, sounds a pragmatic prid quo pro relationship.
BoroMart
Well-known member
The Republican party of today, has no resemblance to the party of 50 years ago and more.It's a tool of corporations and billionaire libertarians. The Democrat party is far closer to that republican party of yesteryear.
Calling Joe Biden incompetant and corrupt is nonsense when you are saying it in the same statement as Trump. Because Trump is an A* student at both those things. His incompetance at almost every venture in life is astounding, but particularly in his governance of the country, he has broken the country, created civil unrest, let 150k people die while sat on his hands. His corruption, pardoning people that support him, sacking people investigating him, supporting dictators and creating a wedge with allies, it's astounding. That's before you look at his plundering of tax money for his own businesses, or you could go pre-president and using 'charitable' donations to buy things for himself like paintings.
Biden has never done anything remotely corrupt or incompetent on those scales, ever.
ticker_tape
Well-known member
BR has been coming on here for years with his pro republican /conservative rubbish. I normally holiday there for over 20 odd years, so take an interest, the place was always a rabid racist utopia, that was slowly being changed. Strange thing is despite the worst form of life becoming POTUS, the wheels of change are accelerating. BR will be back with his daft oclock posts.
BoroMart
Well-known member
I lived out there for 3 years, I visited 37 states through work, and like you regularly visit for holidays (and again for work). I agree his post is full of ignorance
Randy
Well-known member
Is that 100% true?
I would have thought his hands are tied when it comes to bringing stability back to those cities who are rioting and protesting every day and night for the past 8 weeks. The common everyday folk must be living in absolute terror everyday not knowing what's going to happen to their businesses or even if they will survive walking down the street after dark.
The mayors and governors aren't exactly rushing to put a stop to the vandalism and violence are they?
What other options do those in charge of the country have?
NYboro
Well-known member
It is absolutely true. None of these cities want his Stormtroopers - that is entirely between Trump and his tame AG. The vandalism and violence is only made worse by these actions.
Randy
Well-known member
Fair enough.
Who puts a stop to this anarchy and vandalism then? Surely these cities don't want this to become the norm.
BoroMart
Well-known member
His hands aren't tied, it was a conscious decision to stoke unrest on his behalf because he has a 'you are with me or you are my enemy' mindset. Pragmatism, humanity, empathy and diplomacy seem beyond his comprehension.
'rioting and protesting' -- protesting is legal, enshrined in the constitution even. Deal with it. Rioting, considering the amount of protesting, the amount of anger, the rioting has been very small. Rioting has also happened in the past, many times in US history, it doesn't usually get the response of unmarked feds beating people. I saw one video of 13, THIRTEEN, unmarked feds, attacking a non-violent protester with batons while he was on the floor, and kicking him in the head. There is zero excuse for this and people will always respond to that kind of behaviour with defiance.
As for 8 weeks, well you reap what you sow. If the president decides to disenfranchise half the populace, to spread persistent provable lies and conspiracy theories, to try to divide rather than bring the country together, then this is the obvious outcome. The american people have been pretty restrained in the face of such tyrannical 'leadership'.
I know a lot of american, have a lot of close friends.....the terror they feel is from what Trump is doing to the country, the breaking of the social fabric. He has been as bad as I stated when he won the collegiate vote.
BoroMart
Well-known member
It won't be Trump, he is unable to listen to other opinions and bring the population together, he is an utter failure at the diplomatic requirements of a leader. He isn't a leader, in any real sense of the word, even in his businesses by all accounts.
NYboro
Well-known member
Trump is just stoking it. It's fairly obvious that sending in troops with no identity tags and unmarked vehicles is just going to cause more unrest.
Randy
Well-known member
I understand all you are saying boromart but the question still remains. Who restores law and order if the cities won't do it?
Biden? November is a long way away and it isn't even guaranteed that he wins. Hell if he doesn't the protesting and rioting would continue wouldn't it? As an outsider looking in it looks to me like it's a protest against the presidency and evolved out of the BLM movement.
Biden? November is a long way away and it isn't even guaranteed that he wins. Hell if he doesn't the protesting and rioting would continue wouldn't it? As an outsider looking in it looks to me like it's a protest against the presidency and evolved out of the BLM movement.
NYboro
Well-known member
Portland is a very strange city. For all its apparent liberalism, it was traditionally run by the KKK and still has a very, very low African American population. They have been reluctant to do anything about the targeting of blacks by the police. The one thing that can safely be said, is that sending in stormtroopers will not help the situation.
BoroMart
Well-known member
So first you need to reduce the rioting, and the local law enforcement can and have done that. Most rioting was weeks ago. Most of the current activity is protesting, followed by some minor issues like vandalism of federal buildings....but then it turns to violence with the unmarked feds.
It's Trumps job to stop the rioting, but he is the cause of it and the instigator to its continuation. There will be continued protesting, and outbreaks of trouble until January. You can't rule free people with an iron fist, that's all Trump understands. He lacks the empathy or humanity to see anything other than this. He was reknowned for running business this way, sacking anyone that had a differing opinion or made a mistake, refusing to pay people, suing constantly. He has zero knowledge of the human condition and it's his ultimate failure as a president. If he carries on with his current tactics there will be another Oklahoma City bombing.