The end?

JonnyHistory said:
How about the fact he strong armed them by cutting off aid and is essentially extorting Ukraine of its mineral wealth ... any mention of this in the article? or do you think that's a fair negotiating tactic for this apparent "deal".

I mean even the fact they are calling it a deal and using Trumps 8 year old vernacular to describe what's happening is wrong. **** poor reporting and leaves out so much detail its criminal, reading that you would think Trump has been acting as a brave mediator when in fact he has been anything but.
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This line in particular annoyed the hell out of me "The aggressive style produced results within hours"

Also this "There is, however, clear progress towards Trump's promise, repeated throughout much of last year's presidential campaign, that he is the one who can end the war after three years.

He has chosen to perform a high-wire act where success could bring peace and prosperity. The price of failure, however, will be measured in lives lost."

It is not a "high-wire act" or an "aggressive style" its petulance and stupidity, the fact that nobody calls out the truth of what he does is symbolic of the watered down reporting masquerading as journalism these days.
 
JonnyHistory said:
How about the fact he strong armed them by cutting off aid and is essentially extorting Ukraine of its mineral wealth ... any mention of this in the article? or do you think that's a fair negotiating tactic for this apparent "deal".

I mean even the fact they are calling it a deal and using Trumps 8 year old vernacular to describe what's happening is wrong. **** poor reporting and leaves out so much detail its criminal, reading that you would think Trump has been acting as a brave mediator when in fact he has been anything but.
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Again, no Trump fan here, but 'strong arming them' is a negotiation tactic, to be brutally honest. I'd be more upset that the piece doesn't go into the dirty details of why they were kicked out of 5 eyes to give a bigger picture of exactly those tactics, but that's probably asking a bit much now, it'll come out in the wash later as these things tend to. The UK public do not care about foreign policy details in much the same way they did not care about the Brexit details or even the Scottish independence debate, so the slant in the article is probably about right. Trump is all about trying to keep his political promises, so the only headline that matters for him is a peace he can claim. Galling when you think the truth matters, but that's where we are in geopolitics for the next 3 and a half years.
Personally I don't mind if he gets lauded as the best President ever in the press whilst in office as long as the facts on the ground give Ukraine their 91 borders back and Russia are proper knacked.
 
JonnyHistory said:
How about the fact he strong armed them by cutting off aid and is essentially extorting Ukraine of its mineral wealth ... any mention of this in the article? or do you think that's a fair negotiating tactic for this apparent "deal".
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It literally says this: "Just a week ago, the US suspended military aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine in the aftermath of the bitter meeting between Volodymyr Zelensky and Donald Trump at the White House."
and
"...there is still no sign of the mineral rights deal which would give the US a share of future Ukrainian mining revenues. Trump has made clear how much he wants this..."

The article is making it clear Trump has used strong arm tactics to try and get what he wants. Whether that is fair or not is up to the reader.

JonnyHistory said:
This line in particular annoyed the hell out of me "The aggressive style produced results within hours


Also this "There is, however, clear progress towards Trump's promise, repeated throughout much of last year's presidential campaign, that he is the one who can end the war after three years.
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You might disagree with Trumps approach here but these sentence are factually accurate.

The BBC seems to take flak for being biased from both the right and left in equal measure which is obviously impossible.

They manages to tread a fine line of balanced factual based journalism and in my experience anyone who disagrees with this is normally living in a media bubble of their own viewpoint. Sometimes it is good to step back and review how balanced your normal media content is.
 
JonnyHistory said:
This line in particular annoyed the hell out of me "The aggressive style produced results within hours"

Also this "There is, however, clear progress towards Trump's promise, repeated throughout much of last year's presidential campaign, that he is the one who can end the war after three years.

He has chosen to perform a high-wire act where success could bring peace and prosperity. The price of failure, however, will be measured in lives lost."

It is not a "high-wire act" or an "aggressive style" its petulance and stupidity, the fact that nobody calls out the truth of what he does is symbolic of the watered down reporting masquerading as journalism these days.
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The BBC have been in complete disarray on the Trump Zelensky meetings and were completely opposite to public opinion after the bullying episode.

Probably getting money from Trump or Musk to spin for them, they never have a bad word about richest man in the world Musk.
 
InflatableDinosaur said:
It literally says this: "Just a week ago, the US suspended military aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine in the aftermath of the bitter meeting between Volodymyr Zelensky and Donald Trump at the White House."
and
"...there is still no sign of the mineral rights deal which would give the US a share of future Ukrainian mining revenues. Trump has made clear how much he wants this..."

The article is making it clear Trump has used strong arm tactics to try and get what he wants. Whether that is fair or not is up to the reader.


You might disagree with Trumps approach here but these sentence are factually accurate.

The BBC seems to take flak for being biased from both the right and left in equal measure which is obviously impossible.

They manages to tread a fine line of balanced factual based journalism and in my experience anyone who disagrees with this is normally living in a media bubble of their own viewpoint. Sometimes it is good to step back and review how balanced your normal media content is.
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I did not realise blackmail was subjective!
 
It would appear likely to be correct. The Ukraine forces have "withdrawn to more defensible positions" in the Kursk salient and as documented in this YT post from a usually reliable source some rearguard troops were unable to withdraw from Malaya Loknya fought until they ran out of ammunition then surrendered.
 
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Unlikely to be real Putin.
Kursk stuff is probable. Though wouldn't know on numbers.
Can't get anything from the Grand Fromage tonight as he is absolutely whacked and comatose. Long and demanding couple of days.
 
InflatableDinosaur said:
You might disagree with Trumps approach here but these sentence are factually accurate.
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Are they though?

"The aggressive style produced results within hours"

This is subjective not factual. Who's to say what impact their approach had? Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation.

You could equally say "the Ukraine delegations calm and patient demeanour in the face of aggressive provocation from the US produced results in hours".
 
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festa5 said:
Are they though?

"The aggressive style produced results within hours"

This is subjective not factual. Who's to say what impact their approach had? Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation.

You could equally say "the Ukraine delegations calm and patient demeanour in the face of aggressive provocation from the US produced results in hours".
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That sentence relates specifically to the tariff dispute with Canada and not Ukraine and accurately sums up what happened. Here it is in context:

"But a strategy that involves a whirlwind of public threats and concessions is not without risks, as has been painfully apparent to the more than 60% of Americans with investments in the US stock market in recent weeks.

Major stock indexes continued to tumble on Tuesday after Trump escalated his war of words - and tariffs - with America's northern neighbour and largest trading partner, Canada.

In a caustic post on his Truth Social account, Trump said he would double impending tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminium in response to a planned Canadian surcharge on electricity bound for northern US states.

He said – again - that Canada becoming a US state is the "only thing that makes sense".

The aggressive style produced results within hours – the premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, backed down from the energy surcharge for now, and then Trump said he would no longer double the 25% tariffs coming into force on Wednesday."
 
InflatableDinosaur said:
The aggressive style produced results within hours – the premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, backed down from the energy surcharge for now, and then Trump said he would no longer double the 25% tariffs coming into force on Wednesday."
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It depends on how you interpret it. This article (also from the BBC) suggests that it was more Trump who backed down.

But [Ford's] threat to hike the price of electricity on Americans seems to have earned him a grudging nod of respect from Trump, who later backed off from doubling tariffs on aluminium and steel to 50%.

It also helped Ford score a meeting with US officials in Washington to discuss the future of the Canada-US trade relationship.
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Who is Doug Ford, the Canadian premier standing up to Trump?
 
So, in brief. The new alliance building went as well as hoped. No US present, but Canada ("new besties"), Australia, NZ and Japan were. Grand Fromage can't reveal too much, but he did say that "peacekeeping" troops WILL have permission to return fire, including within Russsia.
On Kursk, difficult times, but an ungodly number of Russians spent. Not 400 Ukrainians taken .... but around one hundred... not all from one pocket either, but various skirmishes.
Kursk has served its purpose. Donetsk is more important now.
So far Russia is declining on ceasefire. Fromage is happy enough with that.
 
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