The end?

My thoughts are that once the war has ended and an official peace treaty is signed then Ukraine will be deservedly accepted into NATO.
This would make Ukraine one of the most eastern NATO members and I believe the most eastern NATO member in Europe?
If/when Ukraine win the war and even if/when they are accepted into NATO they will still have hostile neighbours(unless there is a regime change in Belarus) with one of them neighbours being the former second army in the world, who I would imagine will be licking it's wounds and feeling a bit humiliated, I can't imagine tensions between the two nations easing in the near to mid term future, there will be feelings of mistrust on one side and resentment on the other.
So I can't imagine Ukraine giving up it's weapons easily and if they do become part of NATO I would imagine they will be given more modern western weapons anyway.
 
My thoughts are that once the war has ended and an official peace treaty is signed then Ukraine will be deservedly accepted into NATO.
This would make Ukraine one of the most eastern NATO members and I believe the most eastern NATO member in Europe?
If/when Ukraine win the war and even if/when they are accepted into NATO they will still have hostile neighbours(unless there is a regime change in Belarus) with one of them neighbours being the former second army in the world, who I would imagine will be licking it's wounds and feeling a bit humiliated, I can't imagine tensions between the two nations easing in the near to mid term future, there will be feelings of mistrust on one side and resentment on the other.
So I can't imagine Ukraine giving up it's weapons easily and if they do become part of NATO I would imagine they will be given more modern western weapons anyway.
I'd agree they'll be n NATO within 3 years of a peace treaty.

After that I'd expect an agreement with Russia that as long as they don't have any significant armed forces within 100 miles of the Ukraine border then there won't be NATO forces at the border or some such agreement.
 
Which might present some irony if NATO has to support a much weakened Russia against China.

I see Prigozhin is now calling the war stupid and pointless. This will be now that he is about to lose the mines in Bakhmut and Soledar. Having wasted massive resources on trying to secure them.
 
Which might present some irony if NATO has to support a much weakened Russia against China.

I see Prigozhin is now calling the war stupid and pointless. This will be now that he is about to lose the mines in Bakhmut and Soledar. Having wasted massive resources on trying to secure them.
Russia and china at war?

I read this alluded to earlier in thread but is this still considered a plausible development and if so how is it thought it might come about?
 
There is a bit of a whisper that F-117s have been operating and dropping some sort of radar jamming missile allowing other missiles to evade detection to hit Russian targets.

They have been retired but USA still have 5 still operational
 
Russia and china at war?

I read this alluded to earlier in thread but is this still considered a plausible development and if so how is it thought it might come about?
With Russia on its knees due to this special operation.
An opportunistic China could gain territory in return for supplying food, brokering peace ?
 
With Russia on its knees due to this special operation.
An opportunistic China could gain territory in return for supplying food, brokering peace ?
The ruskies are out of food too? Thought their next move was to paint spuds green and try n pass em of as grenades.

Is it possible china could supply them with just enough arms to maintain an impasse and therefore weaken russia AND the west at the same time. Then it can knock taiwan off its to do list knowing the yanks cant start something they cant finish. This wouldve made an awesome box set
 
There is a bit of a whisper that F-117s have been operating and dropping some sort of radar jamming missile allowing other missiles to evade detection to hit Russian targets.

They have been retired but USA still have 5 still operational

See the last but one post from our man, yesterday. They have been operating for a short while I think. He did allude to it a week or so ago, referring obliquely to ghosts of wars past.

It has, of course, been kept pretty quiet. They are not actually USAF. They are operated by a private company, which is how they are able to be involved directly in the conflict.
 
The ruskies are out of food too? Thought their next move was to paint spuds green and try n pass em of as grenades.

Is it possible china could supply them with just enough arms to maintain an impasse and therefore weaken russia AND the west at the same time. Then it can knock taiwan off its to do list knowing the yanks cant start something they cant finish. This wouldve made an awesome box set
The Russian people buy their food with roubles.
If the Russian currency collapses then they will be let's face it, a bit peckish.
 
On downed aircraft and uncle Luka

"Bryansk
Over in Bryansk Oblast one Mi-8, one Mi-28 (Electronic Warfare version of the Mi-8), on Su-34, and an SU-35 all dropped to their firy doom over Russia.
There has been much discussion about this, how it happened and what did them in.
Initially everyone thought that it was Russia that downed them themselves, but it turned out to indeed be to good to be true.
Sadly (Bohoo) for Russia the answer is much worse.

All 4 was part of the same mission to attack Ukraine, but Ukraine had gotten hold of the information that they were coming and set a trap.
The Mi-28 was downed by a HAARM missile launched from a Mig-29, this was done so that the Russians would not see what was waiting for them.
Ukraine recently received the second battery of IRIS-T, and it seems like it is deployed here to plug up any attacks from the north.
With the Mi-28 gone the IRIS-T opened fire and a 3 missiles later the pride of Russia was down infront of the eyes of a lot of Russians, who happily spread videos all over Russia.
The Russian authorities then launched their brilliant propaganda plan to defuse any worry at home, they stated that ALL FOUR of the aircraft had suffered engine malfunctions.
Please, could someone explain to me how this would be better than saying that they had been downed by the enemy.

A fifth airplane was downed over Crimea, but that was not related to this.

Uncle Luka ad memoriam
Uncle Luke was flown home on the 9th of May from Moscow at great speed, upon arrival he was driven at breakneck speed to the State Military Hospital in Minsk, the finest in all of Belarus.
Today Belarus informally asked permission for a medivac flight to Zürich, but that request was quickly cancelled.
After that two Russian planes left the ongoing diplomatic summit carrying Prime Minister Mishustin and the Speaker of the Duma.
After a couple of hours they left for Moscow.

Belarus has yet to confirm it, but we believe that Uncle Luka may have died.
We also believe that he was poisoned while Moscow, and we do believe this is an attempt by Russia to take over Belarus.

What now? How could they take over Belarus?
The answer is quite simple.
Both Putin and Uncle Luka is due to a constitutional cockup the successor for the other if one of them dies on the post.
If they are voted out this is not a thing, only if they die on the throne.
Obviously all that Belarus has to do to stop this is say, "fine Putin... let us first have a DNA-sample to compare with what we have on file".

Obviously Russia will not play it that way, they will try to take over rapidly.
And that will go down swimmingly in Belarus, mass protests will ensue, and this time it is unlikely that the Belarusian Security Forces and the Army will play ball.
Instead they are equally likely to take to the streets themselves against Russia.
Of all stupid things that Russia could have done, killing Uncle Luka (if that is what they did) and try to take over Belarus, it is the worst thing they could have done.
Russia lack the cohesion and power to be even remotely close to being able to pull it off.
Especially since there is a fully legitimate President that won the last election, and she would have the western support for an intervention even.

Anyway, let us sit and eat popcorn and wait for confirmation of what is happening in Belarus.

Girkin/Strelkov
Oh, and little third thing...
Strelkov have pointed out that the Ukrainian Offensive in Bakhmut is the first step of the larger Offensive.
Funnily enough he is not overly bothered with Kherson and Zhaporizhzhia, he seems to believe more in a Donbas offensive from Kreminna down to Vuhledar.
He is also quite convinced that Ukraine will go North and take Belgorod, Bryansk and Kursk Oblasts.

Everyone laughed at this stating that Ukraine would never do that due to politics.
I am actually more siding with Strelkov here.

From a military standpoint it is a knockout blow with a following count to ten.
And Ukraine can comfortably pull it off since Russia has extremely few troops in this direction.
If they hold those Zelenskyy could put on a leisure suit and ride to Moscow in a fortnight while singing Chervona Khalyna at the top of his lungs.

It is in the politics things get more complicated.
While The West is quite fine with Ukraine doing commando raids, artillery fire missions, massaging the frontline troops, and generally blowing **** up, they would not at this point in time be fine with Ukraine taking a large chunk of Russian territory and threatening to go further to Moscow.
This did not stop Ukraine from running heavy artillery fire missions on the border last night, and as morning came two huge columns of armour charged out of the morning mist towards the border along the main roads to Belgorod and Bryansk.
Let us just say there was many brown pants in Russia, and Russian telegram-channels was suddenly filled with pure and utter dread.
Ukraine obviously trolled Russia, but it showed Russia that keeping those oblasts is only due to Ukraine being nice (for now).

No, Russia keeping those 3 oblasts is completely up to them, and depends upon how stubborn the Russians are.

I am fairly certain that Ukraine will take Bakhmut, and then cut down from Vuhledar towards Mariupol (or another place) to cut the landbridge, then they will drop the Kersh Bridge and sit and wait for the Russian army there to give up.
With that land returned to Ukraine they have two choices.
A very bloody war against their own in Donbas supported by the Russian army, or just take the 3 oblasts and trade them for Donbas.

In an ideal world Ukraine would just have gone directly up now, it would after all save time, suffering and many many lives on both sides.
I wish The West was not so... expletive... "
 
Our man thinks this is highly plausible. Am quietly chuffed, as I think I know the square root of FA about all this stuff.
 
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Sons, brothers, fathers……all loved. So stupid. So sad. I’m m sure sisters, wives, mothers also. So F***ing sad and pointless. One man’s idiocy.

Humans are imbeciles.

I’ve had a beer and maybe melancholy has overtaken me but I read this thread and I feel so tired of my human state. This whole episode is a tragedy for all the ‘ordinary’ involved. And we on here sit by and delight in videos of rockets launched and boys dying in terror. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it all it hurts my soul that we still do this to each other.

I’ll comment no more, but my heart bleeds.
 
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Sons, brothers, fathers……all loved. So stupid. So sad. I’m m sure sisters, wives, mothers also. So F***ing sad and pointless. One man’s idiocy.

Humans are imbeciles.

I’ve had a beer and maybe melancholy has overtaken me but I read this thread and I feel so tired of my human state. This whole episode is a tragedy for all the ‘ordinary’ involved. And we on here sit by and delight in videos of rockets launched and boys dying in terror. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it all it hurts my soul that we still do this to each other.

I’ll comment no more, but my heart bleeds.
Again, human behaviour is baffling. Why the hell do common people all still dutifully trundle off to war in 2023 to give their lives for politicians. Ukraine fair enough had no real choice but to defend their homeland. If there was ever a call to arms in the uk itd be a flat gtf from me. Im ready for not only a regime change but also a change from the facade of democracy.
 
Sons, brothers, fathers……all loved. So stupid. So sad. I’m m sure sisters, wives, mothers also. So F***ing sad and pointless. One man’s idiocy.

Humans are imbeciles.

I’ve had a beer and maybe melancholy has overtaken me but I read this thread and I feel so tired of my human state. This whole episode is a tragedy for all the ‘ordinary’ involved. And we on here sit by and delight in videos of rockets launched and boys dying in terror. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it all it hurts my soul that we still do this to each other.

I’ll comment no more, but my heart bleeds.

I think we all feel it mate.
 
It makes me think of this song(I know there has been several versions but this one is my favourite).
A song about a war which ended over a hundred years ago, written in the mid 70s and still just as true today. How many millions of lives have been lost and wasted in pointless wars even since this song was written in 1976 never mind how many lives have been lost and wasted by psychopathic dictators or greedy rich men wanting to get richer since Willie McBride(and 100s of 1000s like him) in 1916.
 
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