Tav

Andy_W said:
I hope to god it's hypothetical, but imagine if the club sold Tav, and sorted his replacement, as a commercial decision, without having the input of Wilder? I think that would possibly make him leave.

Tav's the ideal player for our system, and I'm starting to hope that all of this is just speculation which has got out of hand, so the below comment from three weeks ago still stands:

"I’m not expecting any other (senior) departures apart from Djed. What I would say though is that if something ridiculous did happen, then would Steve reinvest the money? Yeah, he would. The names that always get bandied around are Djed, Tav and Dael – if all of a sudden we got a £60m bid, would Steve look at it? Yeah, he would. But he’d also then be adjusting what players we were able to go for ourselves. We’d be able to go for different targets because he would want to reinvest."

1) Is £12m the same as £60m, or a ridiculous bid? No, it's way below par (for Tav, not so much for Spence)
2) They would have known Tav's aspirations early July
3) They would have known if we had any informal or contractual agreements to let Tav go if there was a Premiership bid
4) We probably would have been expecting a bit from the Prem
5) We've not even spent a penny of the Spence money yet, never mind the supposed £12m from Tav
6) There's only another month till the transfer window closes
7) They will have known Payero was not staying
8) Tav's still got 2 years on his contract

It just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't even think £20m is a ridiculous bid for a young, English, left footed, box to box CM who doesn't seem to have any doubts about his professionalism. The only way the bid is ridiculous, is that it is ridiculously low if we don't have to sell, but I'm pretty sure that's not what Wilder was getting at.

If we were certain we could attract players, and their clubs would let them go, and we went out and spent £25m on a forward and a CM, and also got in a few free loans then I could understand it far better, but we would need a good 5/6 players and for most of them to pay off. Seems a bit of a tall order to do that within a month, and if we don't the season could well be over before it's started.

I can understand Forss (albeit he's not proven) but I don't get the Hoppe thing. Hoppe played like 185 minutes last year, for a la liga team who stayed up by a point, looks like he was their 4th choice and they are probably no better than us. They also paid 3.5m for him, but seemingly already want to cash in, seems very risky.
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People were also saying that Wilder said at the fan's event Tav wasn't pushing to leave. So if the reports are true that would mean the club have accepted the bid on its own merits, not because the player is threatening to kick up a fuss.

I suppose there are a lot of unknowns right now. No-one really knows the fee or who else we have lined up. The club aren't very communicative on this sort of thing, so a lot of guesswork going on and we'll have a better idea of how they've handled it in a few weeks.

Based on the rumours so far not a lot of it seems to make much sense though, agree with your points 1-8.
 
uncle_rico said:
I was told last night that Tav’s replacement will be Hannibal Mejbri, on a season loan from Man Utd.
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This doesn't just apply to Mejbri, it applies to any 19 year old playing centre mid, and it's not a dig at your post:

A loan isn't a replacement, it's a temporary stop gap, and at 19 years old it's not a stop gap which is anywhere near guaranteed to pay off, in fact the odds are massively against this. When was the last time a team got promoted with a 19 year old centre mid playing a lot of games? Ok, he could be a backup (which relies on McGree filling Tav's boots, another risk), but Man U won't want to loan him out if he's not going to play a lot of games. The last time I can think of a player to play the level needed to go up, at that age is Bellingham (but he's come on since being at Birmingham, he probably wasn't good enough at 17), and I don't think anyone expects Mejbri to be that good.

If Tav's good enough for the prem, he's good enough for us until he retires, and it means we don't need to find another Tav next year, if we go up (which we would pay more than 12m for).

I just don't see what we gain by selling this year (when he's got 2 years left), as to buy a like for like replacement it's going to cost us more (transfer and wages), or just be large risk, which in turn will cost us if we don't go up.

It just doesn't seem to make much commercial sense, as we could keep him for a year, and sell him next year for similar value (and have him for another year on a relatively low contract).
It doesn't make much sense in a football sense, as we would need to replace him with someone similar level, and also get another in to replace Payero.

The reward v risk on this seems extremely ****, especially compared to getting 12.5m for Spence, who we had a replacement for and couldn't really play both.
 
Maybe we should see this for what it is objectively. He has 2 years left on his contract and is unlikely to sign an extention given his age and EPL ambitions. Ideally we'd keep him but 12m plus or whatever the exact figure is represents a good fee for an academy product who we would not get half that for if we were to sell next season in the event of non promotion this year.

Every club is a selling club when the price is right and the Boro are not exactly having their eyes taken out here. We get good money for a good, but not great player, and can look to bring in and develop other players and maybe sell them on in the future to make the club sustainable.

Good luck to Tav, I'm sure we have irons in the fire and I want see McGree play left side of the 3 midfielders as does Wilder it would seem.

Utb
 
Cullenbohannon said:
Maybe we should see this for what it is objectively. He has 2 years left on his contract and is unlikely to sign an extention given his age and EPL ambitions. Ideally we'd keep him but 12m plus or whatever the exact figure is represents a good fee for an academy product who we would not get half that for if we were to sell next season in the event of non promotion this year.
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I think we would likely still get 12m next year though, as there would be a lot of interest if he was on the market (which he would be then), and that way we have the benefit of the player for another year, a player who is very much a known quantity/ low risk, who is on relatively low wages.
 
Tav is a good player, but only one newly promoted PL club has wanted to sign him.
The fee is I think a good one and I would emphasise that I am glad we are receiving £10m plus add ons for him, rather than spending it on him.
The issue for me is the timing and attitude towards re-investing; because we most certainly should do.
 
indeedido said:
Tav is a good player, but only one newly promoted PL club has wanted to sign him.
The fee is I think a good one and I would emphasise that I am glad we are receiving £10m plus add ons for him, rather than spending it on him.
The issue for me is the timing and attitude towards re-investing; because we most certainly should do.
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I think £10m would have been ok, for previous years and pre Wilder.

But since Wilder came in Tav's probably been out best and most consistent player, and various player rating sites seem to match up with that. I'd fully expect him to carry that on, and get even better so that £10m goes out of the window for me, especially with him being a player who is seemingly perfectly suited to a Wilder team.
 
Cullenbohannon said:
Maybe we should see this for what it is objectively. He has 2 years left on his contract and is unlikely to sign an extention given his age and EPL ambitions. Ideally we'd keep him but 12m plus or whatever the exact figure is represents a good fee for an academy product who we would not get half that for if we were to sell next season in the event of non promotion this year.

Every club is a selling club when the price is right and the Boro are not exactly having their eyes taken out here. We get good money for a good, but not great player, and can look to bring in and develop other players and maybe sell them on in the future to make the club sustainable.

Good luck to Tav, I'm sure we have irons in the fire and I want see McGree play left side of the 3 midfielders as does Wilder it would seem.

Utb
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Dont think you can view it in isolation though. Youve also got to look at whats his worth to our team. How easily can his attributes be replaced and how much will it cost to do so?

it might be Wilder is very confident we can bring in a very similar player for much less. Or 3 players for the money that will strengthen us overall. I dont know, you'd hope he's had a big input into the decision.

And of course its not £12m or nothing. Its £12m or keep him for a year then sell him. Which may or may not be less than the amount he's going for. But if its less I doubt it'd be much less.

There's also a third scenario where we keep him, get promoted and he signs a new contract. In which case we don't have to go out and sign our own £10m+ midfielder.
 
Andy_W said:
I think £10m would have been ok, for previous years and pre Wilder.

But since Wilder came in Tav's probably been out best and most consistent player, and various player rating sites seem to match up with that. I'd fully expect him to carry that on, and get even better so that £10m goes out of the window for me, especially with him being a player who is seemingly perfectly suited to a Wilder team.
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I guess I just have a lower regard for Tav than some and that is fine. Time will tell:
1. How he does.
2. How well we re-invest and perform...or not.
 
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