Tav ......

Caesium137 said:
Tav heat map...

Looks to have spent more than 50% attacking than defending?
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I said his role as a box to box midfielder is to 50% attack 50% defend. As is the role of any box to box midfielder at any club.
He's attacked more than defended last season because we finished 7th...

It's how the team played last season. We were unbalanced with Jones attacking more on the right and Taylor defending more on the left... I thought that was common knowledge.
 
Ash88 said:
What about them?... He takes our corners so he automatically should have more assists? - He's was our second highest assist maker last season.
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But you love stats and say that is the best way to judge, the stats are irrefutable surely?

Jones with OG counted was 11 assists I think? Tav takes all of our set plays and has what, four or five? That is really poor surely?

I love Tav and don't want him to leave, what he does is really important for the team. But people defending his assists as a strength or remotely near acceptable for someone who takes the majority of set plays are in cloud cuckoo land.

People then blame the strikers, and obviously we've had some stinkers, but Jones got plenty of assists with the same players.

Love the kid, I just can't have it that he's being described as some sort of Champo reincarnation of the best Makelele and Foden rolled into one.
 
Ash88 said:
He's attacked more than defended last season because we finished 7th...
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Isn't that what I said then, he spent more than 50% attacking than he did defending?

Ash88 said:
It's how the team played last season. We were unbalanced with Jones attacking more on the right and Taylor defending more on the left... I thought that was common knowledge.
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It was.
 
Caesium137 said:
But you love stats and say that is the best way to judge, the stats are irrefutable surely?

Jones with OG counted was 11 assists I think? Tav takes all of our set plays and has what, four or five? That is really poor surely?

I love Tav and don't want him to leave, what he does is really important for the team. But people defending his assists as a strength or remotely near acceptable for someone who takes the majority of set plays are in cloud cuckoo land.

People then blame the strikers, and obviously we've had some stinkers, but Jones got plenty of assists with the same players.

Love the kid, I just can't have it that he's being described as some sort of Champo reincarnation of the best Makelele and Foden rolled into one.
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This is my trail of thought.

Do I think he contributes? Yes, especially under Wilder. He improved massively after a very poor first half of the season.

Is he irreplaceable? Absolutely not. Do I think £10,000,000-£15,000,000 is good money for him? ABSOLUTELY YES. I'd snap their hands off.
 
Caesium137 said:
Isn't that what I said then, he spent more than 50% attacking than he did defending?
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I never said he didn't. I said the role of a box to box midfielder is 50% attack 50% defend, which it is.

Jones has a better assist record than Tav, I can't argue that. Crooks has a better goal record than Tav, I can't argue with that...
Howson I believe has more ball retrievals than Tav, another fact... But where is Tav in all of these stats? 2nd 2nd 2nd... and he's 1st for a lot of others.

Tav is the best player on our team. Yes it's "partly my opinion"... But it's an opinion that's backed up by lots of different unbiased stats.

WilderBall said:
Is he irreplaceable? Absolutely not. Do I think £10,000,000-£15,000,000 is good money for him? ABSOLUTELY YES. I'd snap their hands off.
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£15 million is good money for him, I agree.

Is he irreplaceable? He is not irreplaceable. Long term there are very few players in the world who are irreplaceable.

However... Is he replaceable before the window closes is the question you need to ask?

Because all the players mentioned so far are not for sale, and although great players... are a slight downgrade.
 
All this talk of 15m I'll snap your hand off,drive him there myself ect, as a fan of roughly 50 years the amount of times I've seen us sell our best players and replace them with inferior is staggering.
It only ends one way in my opinion,yes 15m would be an excellent price for an academy product but are we as a club going to be stronger for him leaving?
I very much doubt we can follow the Brentford model of selling their best players for big money and replacing them on a budget without weakening the team.
Come on Scott,Bausor ect please prove me wrong
 
Canyoudigit said:
All this talk of 15m I'll snap your hand off,drive him there myself ect, as a fan of roughly 50 years the amount of times I've seen us sell our best players and replace them with inferior is staggering.
It only ends one way in my opinion,yes 15m would be an excellent price for an academy product but are we as a club going to be stronger for him leaving?
I very much doubt we can follow the Brentford model of selling their best players for big money and replacing them on a budget without weakening the team.
Come on Scott,Bausor ect please prove me wrong
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100%. £15 million would be an excellent price for Tav. I'd say that's what he's worth.

However, promotion to the PL is worth £150-200 million.

IF we do sell Tav, we NEED a like for like replacement, at the same level or better, which will be VERY difficult to find.

People earlier in the thread saying we already have it in Riley McGree is just crazy.
 
That N'Golo Kante. I wonder what his stats for goals and assists look like? Another "box to box midfielder" granted playing at a higher level but surely those are the sort of stats we should be expecting of Tav in the second tier to be the best in the second tier...
 
Muttley said:
That N'Golo Kante. I wonder what his stats for goals and assists look like? Another "box to box midfielder" granted playing at a higher level but surely those are the sort of stats we should be expecting of Tav in the second tier to be the best in the second tier...
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N'Golo Kante - 2 premier league goals and 4 assists last season. 1 goal/assist every 636 minutes throughout his PL career.

Although, my opinion - He's more of a Howson-type defensive midfielder.
 
Caesium137 said:
A footballer passing the ball to someone to score? And if own goals counted Jones would have even more, I don't see how you can justify Tav's poor assist stats by solely blaming the people he is passing too when Jones has comfortably more.

Surely getting an assist can't be classed as a different role? They are both players carrying the ball forward and passing to a team mate to score, and Tav had the luxury of taking 75% plus of all our set pieces as well that Jones didn't.

Defend his running, pressing, recovery, energy and everything else but there is no way anyone should be bigging up Tav's assist stats as a positive to his overall game.
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If you're a wide man in behind and sliding it across the 6 yard box it's a far better position for creating assists. Jones did very well undoubtedly. Tav could've got more (although Christ knows how man chances our strikers missed), but you would always expect your wide man to get more
 
Whatever you think of Tav, he will need replacing otherwise we will be very short in midfield. My call would be to go for O’Hare, know little about him but seems like a similar player. Just a shame we let go of payero, who I think could’ve more than filled Tav’s role
 
fassy said:
Will we have enough players for WBA game???
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Assuming you mean if Tav leaves, as things stand...

Steffan
Jones - Lenihan - Fry - McNair - Giles
Crooks - Howson - McGree
Watmore - Coburn

Subs:
Roberts
Dijksteel
Bola
Boyd-Munce
-
-
-

We'd need to bring two young strikers onto the bench, I assume Kavangh and Finch.
Probably enough defence cover with Dijksteel and Bola so we'd need a youth midfielder too. Hackney?

So to answer your question, right now... No haha.
 
I love all the bravado on this thread- easily replaceable they say, no great loss others chirp. What absolute rubbish!

To date, we have two loans in and one free transfer. Signing players for our club appears to be very challenging - through either incompetence or reluctance of players to come this far North.

So in analysis, it won’t be easy to sign a replacement to his level. And this conceivably will make us weaker. That’s the reality boys and girls.
 
Nosmo-King said:
I love all the bravado on this thread- easily replaceable they say, no great loss others chirp. What absolute rubbish!

To date, we have two loans in and one free transfer. Signing players for our club appears to be very challenging - through either incompetence or reluctance of players to come this far North.

So in analysis, it won’t be easy to sign a replacement to his level. And this conceivably will make us weaker. That’s the reality boys and girls.
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But we have got money to burn Nosmo - so everything will be ok.... that's if CW sees any of it!
 
When the players that have came in have been interviewed, take Steffens interview for reference - the club interviewer mentions the ambition the owner has and how promotion to prem is the target. It’s the company line. So why exactly do we find ourselves in this position so close to KO?

We have a full time recruitment team, plus Scott, Bausor and obviously the manger. We’ve known how small the squad was last season, plenty of time to plan. So why exactly do we find ourselves in this position so close to KO?

We can’t keep blaming other teams, we could of had available targets like any other team. Nothing is agreed so these players may never come. Then you’re left with the dregs. Early games wasted, always playing catch up.

Bed wetting or not, the club is all promotion and ambition talk - the reality is we will struggle to be top half with 2/3 injuries.

We need major incoming players, fast.
 
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