Taking back control?

Andy_W

Andy_W

Well-known member
Well, like we said, leaving the EU wouldn't stop immigration (legal or illegal), it would likely just replace EU immigration with those from further afield.

Highest net migration ever, so that's more coming in, but also we're being prevented from working or living away due to what the 52% voted for.

This is legal immigration too, people with Visa's, not illegal immigrants, refugees or asylum seekers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595711982413484032

We all know immigration was the flagship of the brexit vote, albeit most would not admit that, so now that's not working, will this mean they will be pushing to rejoin the EU? Or will this just get ignored like our higher inflation, worse GDP, slower covid recovery, higher energy prices, worse worker rights, worse actual pay?
 
Andy_W said:
Well, like we said, leaving the EU wouldn't stop immigration (legal or illegal), it would likely just replace EU immigration with those from further afield.

Highest net migration ever, so that's more coming in, but also we're being prevented from working or living away due to what the 52% voted for.

This is legal immigration too, people with Visa's, not illegal immigrants, refugees or asylum seekers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595711982413484032

We all know immigration was the flagship of the brexit vote, albeit most would not admit that, so now that's not working, will this mean they will be pushing to rejoin the EU? Or will this just get ignored like our higher inflation, worse GDP, slower covid recovery, higher energy prices, worse worker rights, worse actual pay?
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Taking back control was never about us! The ruling class.. they took it back.
 
newyddion said:
Taking back control was never about us! The ruling class.. they took it back.
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They always had it, and always will, all the vote did was give them more control.

The funny thing is, a lot of the brexit lot said they wanted to get away from EU rule, albeit they didn't rule us of course, we wrote half of the laws, and had a major say in the rest of them.

To be honest, given in the hypothetical situation that they did rule us, I would rather have given up all control and actually let the EU vote in our parliament, or Brussels, Merkel or whatever, rather than have these Tory clowns. At least the EU tries to look after the worse off, it certainly wouldn't be any worse for 90% of us.

So my preference for ruling us would go:
Labour (under any leader Starmer, Corbyn, Blair etc)
The EU
Brussels
Germany
.
.
The Tories under Cameron, Sunak etc (horrible, but at least some competence)
The Tories under BJ, Truss etc (incompetent)
.
.
Farage (****)
 
Interesting figures.
More British returned to UK than left, this was cancelled out by more EU leaving than came.
 
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Andy_W said:
Well, like we said, leaving the EU wouldn't stop immigration (legal or illegal), it would likely just replace EU immigration with those from further afield.

Highest net migration ever, so that's more coming in, but also we're being prevented from working or living away due to what the 52% voted for.

This is legal immigration too, people with Visa's, not illegal immigrants, refugees or asylum seekers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595711982413484032

We all know immigration was the flagship of the brexit vote, albeit most would not admit that, so now that's not working, will this mean they will be pushing to rejoin the EU? Or will this just get ignored like our higher inflation, worse GDP, slower covid recovery, higher energy prices, worse worker rights, worse actual pay?
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One thing Brexit has achieved is taking the immigration debate off the agenda. You never hear it really discussed on panel shows etc now. And the nauseating line “we need to have a proper debate about immigration” is no longer used as it was in the ten years leading up to 2016. So that’s a good thing really; even if immigration hasn’t decreased.

Brexit was largely just an exercise in sticking two fingers up to the “Liberals”. Almost at any cost, economically.

I am not saying everyone who voted for it was doing this, but a very significant proportion, who either didn’t understand or didn’t care about the economic impact.
 
I think some context as presented in the news should be given. We’ve 250k immigration from Ukraine and Hong Kong. Of course this is good and should be celebrated

The optics for the tories and their core support the figures don’t look great
 
atypical_boro said:
One thing Brexit has achieved is taking the immigration debate off the agenda. You never hear it really discussed on panel shows etc now. And the nauseating line “we need to have a proper debate about immigration” is no longer used as it was in the ten years leading up to 2016. So that’s a good thing really; even if immigration hasn’t decreased.

Brexit was largely just an exercise in sticking two fingers up to the “Liberals”. Almost at any cost, economically.

I am not saying everyone who voted for it was doing this, but a very significant proportion, who either didn’t understand or didn’t care about the economic impact.
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'liberals' - I'm not so sure. Many voters think it was a two-fingered salute to their 'betters'. Metropolitan elites, unelected Eurocrats, villas in Tuscany types, you can all f... off.
 
JackG said:
'liberals' - I'm not so sure. Many voters think it was a two-fingered salute to their 'betters'. Metropolitan elites, unelected Eurocrats, villas in Tuscany types, you can all f... off.
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Not disagreeing, but I think liberal/metropolitan elite in particular are synonymous terms amongst the people who use them regularly with disdain.
 
WeeGord said:
Plenty of other threads om football and various other subjects. Perhaps you'd be better off ignoring threads that aren't to your liking?
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Although to be fair, at time of writing - of the first 30 subjects, 19 are nothing to do with football. Which is quite heavy for a football forum I think.
 
atypical_boro said:
One thing Brexit has achieved is taking the immigration debate off the agenda. You never hear it really discussed on panel shows etc now. And the nauseating line “we need to have a proper debate about immigration” is no longer used as it was in the ten years leading up to 2016. So that’s a good thing really; even if immigration hasn’t decreased.

Brexit was largely just an exercise in sticking two fingers up to the “Liberals”. Almost at any cost, economically.

I am not saying everyone who voted for it was doing this, but a very significant proportion, who either didn’t understand or didn’t care about the economic impact.
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I think the brexit vote was largely a lot of the worst off sticking two fingers up at everything really. Loads seem to think "well, my personal situation is bad, and I'm being told it's the EU's fault, so lets get out, it can't get any worse right?". Very nieve, it can always get worse, much worse, as is being proven now. Little did they know that the people they voted for brexit with, (namely the Tories) were hell-bent on lining their own pockets at the expense of the common man.

Kind of seemed like such a done deal initially, that loads voted in protest, and it was those swing voters/ protest votes/ gullible that leave specifically targeted. It was very clever by Cummings, I'll give him that. That tactic won't work often mind, as now everyone should be well aware of the maths, and sometimes targeted votes are more important than raw numbers.

Of course, loads of those who were duped, into playing the Tory/ Brexit game of chess, will not admit they're being used as pawns in public. At a voting booth it could be very different mind.
 
Rofesleg said:
Although to be fair, at time of writing - of the first 30 subjects, 19 are nothing to do with football. Which is quite heavy for a football forum I think.
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To be fair, it's a Boro forum, and we're effectively out of season.

Even though there's a world cup on, I think we've only got one player playing, and they will likely be out of by next week.

I see this place more like general local chat, and half the time we go to the football or to watch it in the pub, maybe 75% of the conversations are not about football.
 
If you read the statistics about the number then it's easily explainable and isn't a permanent trend. Basically, net migration went down significantly, mostly because international students went home and nobody came in their place during the pandemic and after international study has resumed they've come back but measuring against a lower baseline makes the number look bigger. When you look at the numbers in a few years as a 10 year trend it'll be a small blip. Like when they claimed record growth when it was just the economy starting again after covid and being measured against record lows.
 
HarryVegas said:
It's depressing to hear Starmer dog whistling the thicko racists who last time voted blue. It's like he's rounding up the sheep, using dog sh*t as food.
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To be fair I've not heard him say much recently, as I've been busy, but from what I have seen I don't think that's what he's doing, but a lot of people are taking it that way.

Probably needs to choose his words a bit more carefully, albeit what he's said seems fairly clear to me. I think he's more aiming at doing various things in the UK, to get more people in the UK working in areas needed. That makes sense to me, and doesn't mean he's anti-immigration.

It doesn't make sense to use immigrants to do simple tasks which our own people can do, but they either chose not to or a limited from doing due to failures in other areas. Loads of people being off sick, for one, as the NHS is so wrecked that it can't get around to treating everyone to get them back into work. Fix the NHS and it could solve some of the labour issues etc, just one example.

We're always going to need skilled immigration, as most of these jobs take years of education, training and experience to do. More basic jobs don't, and re-training people from one industry to work in another could be a bit simpler.

We will of course need an element of labour-only immigration to plug short-term holes, but there's no reason why this should be the norm if things are planned correctly.
 
Nano said:
If you read the statistics about the number then it's easily explainable and isn't a permanent trend. Basically, net migration went down significantly, mostly because international students went home and nobody came in their place during the pandemic and after international study has resumed they've come back but measuring against a lower baseline makes the number look bigger. When you look at the numbers in a few years as a 10 year trend it'll be a small blip. Like when they claimed record growth when it was just the economy starting again after covid and being measured against record lows.
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Yes, partially agree with this, however, it is still a record and doesn't mean that brits working or moving away is less difficult, it's certainly more difficult.

It also doesn't mean that we won't be open to more "world" immigration, than EU immigration, as we certainly would, largely as we would get equally skilled people, for less cost.

Of course, the students will come back, but the number of foreign students will remain high, as they're up for paying the fees.
 
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