Sycamore Gap Trial Begins
- Thread starter sparkins
- Start date
You assume people like this would learn from something like that, they probably wouldn't.
For these two they need a mix of a little time behind bars, probably they would be out in 12 months, some community work and a financial penalty. They probably need a mix of all to get the message.
In all likelihood they may never truly get what they have done..
Air Resistance
Well-known member
Okay, I’ll bite. I mean, we don’t know how much of a danger to society they are, and it also depends on how you are measuring that. If your society values highly their natural assets and beauty landmarks, then it would seem they are a pretty big danger. I’ve got no idea what your comment about certain sections of society is trying to get at.
I don’t really know what you’re trying to get at with punishing vs protecting either. Do you believe custodial sentences should be reserved for those who only those who are at risk of reoffending in crimes which cause direct physical harm to another human being?
Prisons are not just for locking people up, they are also a deterrent, and deterrents only work if people believe they will be used.
Airsumaces1968
Active member
Their actions were moron like on another scale from your normal stupid prank or whatever from a student drunk etc etc
This was two people who kinda knew what they were doing was going to get notoriety and for that, it’s an act of wickedness (bordering on evil)
It subtly demonstrates how the erosion of social structures and standards is growing at an alarming pace in this country….
Which is confirmed by some people on here not understanding the underlying meaning and significance of the action of these two inbreds.
Priv
Well-known member
They need some extra punishment on the sentence just for pleading not guilty when they knew the police had video footage of them doing it from their own phones.
Costs need to be true costs not a few hundred quid, this will have cost 10s of thousands across the investigation, the cps and the courts time. Should be charging them circa 20-30k and confiscate their houses (if owned) if they don’t have the cash. Something extra as well to cover the cost of re growing trees. Maybe another 10k on top.
Prison time doesn’t need to be much 3-6 months the main thing is the national trust and the tax payer should not be out of pocket due to these prat’s.
Costs need to be true costs not a few hundred quid, this will have cost 10s of thousands across the investigation, the cps and the courts time. Should be charging them circa 20-30k and confiscate their houses (if owned) if they don’t have the cash. Something extra as well to cover the cost of re growing trees. Maybe another 10k on top.
Prison time doesn’t need to be much 3-6 months the main thing is the national trust and the tax payer should not be out of pocket due to these prat’s.
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Linny
Well-known member
A sad reflection on our selfish and cynical society today.
You see it everywhere you look in they way people treat each other and public facilities.
Tory Britain.
Let’s just allow people to do as they please as long as it’s not physically hurting anyone. Don’t care about anyone else.
JM14
Well-known member
When prisons are full and we see sex offenders and other violent criminals walking free or very light sentences, is locking these two up for 10 years really the best use of the prison system?
To me this is valuing a tree more than a person who is a victim of serious crime. Should be nothing more than a very long stretch of community service and a huge financial penalty. These two have already cost the tax payer enough
JM14
Well-known member
Regardless of the significant historical impact of this, it is just one tree.
In this country we are allowing the clearing tens of thousands of trees, woodland, habitats for building every single year. Where is the outrage towards this?
It’s far more of a historical, cultural and environmental crime than what these two have done
In this country we are allowing the clearing tens of thousands of trees, woodland, habitats for building every single year. Where is the outrage towards this?
It’s far more of a historical, cultural and environmental crime than what these two have done
Alzi
Well-known member
It’s a flawed argument though given the cultural significance of the tree. People have proposed there, scattered loved ones ashes etc.
You could apply the same argument to your house if some toe rag burns it down. “It’s just one house - loads more get knocked down every day”.
BoroMart
Well-known member
And it really isn’t unfair to call it Tory Britain. The majority of our time has been under Tory, and when it’s been Labour, it’s a watered down version to appease the middle ground floating voters that seem to think neo-liberal capitalism is somehow going to benefit them
Frozen Horse
Well-known member
It came up a lot last summer too during the riots.
Do we believe that paedophiles are NOT sent to prison in this country? Or is the argument that,whatever their sentence is, it should be longer?
There are almost 90k prison spaces in the UK: that's enough to accommodate all 68k on the sex offenders register (and they're not all paedophiles or rapists, or warrant a life in prison), plus the 5.3k convicted murdered, and still have around 16k spaces.
It is true that we need to be selective as to how we use prison spaces, but the "what about paedophiles" argument was unconvincing last summer, and is still unconvincing now.
JM14
Well-known member
Thousands of acres of woodland have a far bigger cultural significance than one tree, and a thousand times more of an ecological impact
As a country if we applied the same outrage to this (as we should) then this wouldn’t be accepted.
But we are happy to turn a blind eye to this, but expect someone to spend ten years behind bars for cutting down one tree.
And why aren’t the people who did this facing prison?
Toby Carvery owner 'sorry' over ancient tree felling in Enfield - BBC News
The chief executive of the company which felled an ancient oak apologises and opens a review.
www.bbc.com
JM14
Well-known member
When people like Huw Edward’s walk free, but these two are looking at ten years in prison we do have a very big issue with our justice system. And these very valid questions will continue to be asked.
Which crime is worse and who is a bigger danger to the public?
Alzi
Well-known member
Why even compare the two though? I don’t think you will get anyone disagreeing with you re Huw Edwards. You are free to make a thread about that if you want?
It is possible to care about different things at the same time.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
I'm not looking for a bite. We were debating the subject last night, one of the lads is a retired senior probation officer and he was making noises about a lengthy sentence being extreme. I couldn't disagree with him.
We see mindless vandalism regularly, the attacks on houses in poor areas of Middlesbrough last year for instance, far worse for most of us than the tree felling.
We're a group that used to hike a lot, we love nature as much as the rest. None of us had heard of Sycamore gap prior to its destruction.
Alzi
Well-known member
I’m surprised at that. But not sure the relevance.
Extremely well known and visited. We loved taking the kids there (usually after a trip to Housesteads).
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
Just been in the supermarket. Some woman has her trolley in between checkouts. Where I you queuing says I. Which ever is quickest. This is the kind of **** worth getting annoyed about.
Frozen Horse
Well-known member
I don't see the relevance. Huw Edwards is not walking free becasue other people are being sent to jail instead.
It's because that is that is the penalty for his crimes under the law. Take issue with that if you like, I won't say you are wrong, but it's an issue indpendenet of what happens to these two, or to the rioters last Summer.
Loop
Well-known member
What message does it send to other morons out there if they just get slapped with a suspended sentence and community service? It just gives the next d*ck head more of a reason to do harm and destruction to our country.
It's about time we got tough on crime.