Support for Scottish Independence hits 58%

Soutra

Active member
#61
That's simply not true, it's an Edinburgh bank through and through. The fact it bought Nat West does not matter.
RBS was subject to London banking regulations, not anything from Edinburgh. And most of RBS' losses were from operations carried out in London not Edinburgh.

Who is to say that the Edinburgh banking regs would have been as profligate if Scotland had been independent in 2000?

Also, by international convention, when banks which operate in more than one country get into trouble, the bailout is shared in proportion to the area of activities of those banks, and therefore it’s shared between several countries.
Roughly speaking 80% of RBS' operations are in England and 10% are in Scotland, the result being, by that convention, therefore, that the rest of the UK would have to carry 80% of the liabilities of RBS and Scotland 10%.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
#62
I don't care if they vote for independence, it is their choice.
I feel the same about Northern Ireland going it alone or creating one Ireland.

But if they go, they go. A proper split and share of national assets and liabilities and no future funding responsibilities.
It is clear there are opportunities for them on the face of it, but there are incredible risks too.
They will continue to be all talk.
It is up to them whether they go, but up to us how we behave during a split and thereafter.
I think we can take a wild guess at how we will behave during a split. Petulant, deluded, in denial, incompetent, blame everyone else, accept no responsibility, fail to plan and finally confusion as to why the German car manufacturers didn’t step in and come to our rescue.
 

indeedido

Well-known member
#63
I think we can take a wild guess at how we will behave during a split. Petulant, deluded, in denial, incompetent, blame everyone else, accept no responsibility, fail to plan and finally confusion as to why the German car manufacturers didn’t step in and come to our rescue.
Oh well that's that then - Lefty has got it all sussed.
As usual.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
#64
Oh well that's that then - Lefty has got it all sussed.
As usual.
Just going from recent experience. Is that unreasonable?

I suppose it is possible as things fall out over the next year or so that 52% of the voting public will reflect on just how they could be so stupid in their approach to some political matters and regain an appreciation for the enlightenment, reason and critical thinking, while at the same time the other 48% bear in mind that on other issues that could also so easily apply to them.
 

Statto1

Active member
#65
Funny how a lot of those outside of London and the South East see Scotland as a drain, yet it's likely themselves that are more draining.
Even more ironic that people on this board are saying we don't need them, when the UK pretty much needs the North East the least, where most of us live and are from.

1. London £46,500
2. South East £28,700
3. Scotland £24,800
4. East of England £24,000
5. North West £23,100
6. South West £23,100
7. West Midlands £21,800
8. East Midlands £21,200
9. Yorkshire and the Humber £20,700
10. Northern Ireland £20,000
11. North East £19,200
12. Wales £19,100

Losing Scotland would pretty much instantly take about 10% off our GDP, and would also impact us further as we lose more size/ power. Kind of like how we're being battered by the EU as we're tiny compared to them, except our future fights would be from an even weaker position.

Plus:
We then also lose a lot of the coastal, land, mineral, defence rights etc.
There's plenty of UK and English companies based there, or with outlets there which would then likely become unviable with tariffs (assuming Scotland wanted in the EU) and likely cannot afford to relocate without a massive hit.
We would need a border or goods checkpoints

So we now want to pay more tariffs on 50% of our trade, and also want to get rid of Scotland who are third on the list above, yeah, sounds like another brilliant, well thought out idea. :rolleyes:
 
#66
RBS was subject to London banking regulations, not anything from Edinburgh. And most of RBS' losses were from operations carried out in London not Edinburgh.

Who is to say that the Edinburgh banking regs would have been as profligate if Scotland had been independent in 2000?

Also, by international convention, when banks which operate in more than one country get into trouble, the bailout is shared in proportion to the area of activities of those banks, and therefore it’s shared between several countries.
Roughly speaking 80% of RBS' operations are in England and 10% are in Scotland, the result being, by that convention, therefore, that the rest of the UK would have to carry 80% of the liabilities of RBS and Scotland 10%.
Of course 80% is in England that's where Nat West is based. Again it's under London legislation that's the capital. Bells sell most if it's whisky outside of Scotland, does that make them English?. The oil is traded in $$ you must think it's owned by the US.
 
#67
Funny how a lot of those outside of London and the South East see Scotland as a drain, yet it's likely themselves that are more draining.
Even more ironic that people on this board are saying we don't need them, when the UK pretty much needs the North East the least, where most of us live and are from.

1. London £46,500
2. South East £28,700
3. Scotland £24,800
4. East of England £24,000
5. North West £23,100
6. South West £23,100
7. West Midlands £21,800
8. East Midlands £21,200
9. Yorkshire and the Humber £20,700
10. Northern Ireland £20,000
11. North East £19,200
12. Wales £19,100

Losing Scotland would pretty much instantly take about 10% off our GDP, and would also impact us further as we lose more size/ power. Kind of like how we're being battered by the EU as we're tiny compared to them, except our future fights would be from an even weaker position.

Plus:
We then also lose a lot of the coastal, land, mineral, defence rights etc.
There's plenty of UK and English companies based there, or with outlets there which would then likely become unviable with tariffs (assuming Scotland wanted in the EU) and likely cannot afford to relocate without a massive hit.
We would need a border or goods checkpoints

So we now want to pay more tariffs on 50% of our trade, and also want to get rid of Scotland who are third on the list above, yeah, sounds like another brilliant, well thought out idea. :rolleyes:
It's not England's idea.
 

Juninho10

Well-known member
#68
Nicola Sturgeon 'shamelessly' wooing EU leaders to her cause with column in German newspaper

:rolleyes: Thought she was concentrating on Coronavirus
 

Statto1

Active member
#69
It's not England's idea.
It is England's idea, this was chosen by England voting to leave the EU.

Before voting for that, everyone was warned that Scotland wanted to stay, and that there could/ would be repercussions. Scotland said "we want to stay in the EU and will do what we can do to that", this shouldn't be a surprise. There shouldn't be any tears from leaver snowflakes when the UK (England) economy suffers because of it, with likely the North East of England taking the biggest hit, seeing as it's the weakest area and the Tories like praying on the weak.

The chickens are coming home to roost, just like the no deal we're going to end up with, and also getting absolutely battered by the EU in the "negotiations".

All of this was previously touted as "project fear", funny how you don't hear any of the brexiters or tory's saying that term now.
 

Juninho10

Well-known member
#70
It is Englands idea, this was chosen by England voting to leave the EU. By doing that everyone was warned that Scotland wanted to stay and that there could be repercussions.

The chickens are coming home to roost, just like the no deal we're going to end up with, and also getting absolutely battered by the EU in the "negotiations".

All of this was previously touted as "project fear", funny how you don't hear any of the brexiters or tory's saying that term now.
Scotland's population: 5.4m
England's population: 55m

It's never going to be an 'equal union' but it's the best it is going to be

The Scottish are truly thick - but yeah let's join another 'union' with 445m people and see how we do
 
#71
Just as we see with the pig at the top in the US, a right wing movement supported by a rabid media lead brexit has driven a massive divide throughout our society. its a crying shame, in my opinion, that these decisions were largely down to elderly boomers who wont suffer the consequences. the same boomers whose parents made huge sacrifices in two huge wars to protect their future. What did they do in response? They took, took ,took as much as they could for themselves and bollox to everybody else. even in old age they cling on, becoming the first generation in years that leave their children and grandchildren with a poorer existence than they were given.
right-wing populism happily divides society with the very existence of the United Kingdom at serious risk ,both in Scotland and in Northern Ireland. All thanks to David Cameron clinging to power by appeasing the white, old farts in his outdated party. A right wing media lapped it up and poisoned the debate which never really got started.
Only a few weeks ago, somebody mentioned to me the hundreds of millions that the NHS will get every week from January 1st onwards. The lies still resonate even though all involved have admitted its a nonsense but the damage has been done.
 

Statto1

Active member
#72
Scotland's population: 5.4m
England's population: 55m

It's never going to be an 'equal union' but it's the best it is going to be

The Scottish are truly thick - but yeah let's join another 'union' with 445m people and see how we do
Nah, they're not thick for wanting to stay part of the biggest trade bloc in the world, that is literally on their doorstep. Thick is leaving it, and trying to make up that trade with Trump and Australia which is on the opposite side of the world, and quite a logistical issue.

Scotland will probably eye up taking some trade that England used to have too, so expect all of England's GVA to go down and Scotland might stay the same or even go up if they ditch us. They have a lot less to lose by ditching us now we're out of the EU.

Will be even funnier when they put tariffs on everything coming from the North Sea, so we now have to buy even more raw materials from "outsiders", as we just cut off the biggest oil and gas supplier we have.

When Scotland won't let our fishermen in their waters that will be the ultimate icing on the cake, leading to ultimate gammon meltdown.

Might as well invite Trident to the Tees too, and the 20,000 horny sailors (y)
 
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#73
I recently read a report in Middlesbrough & Stockton employment between 1973 and now. Basically during this period under the umbrella of the EC all industrial wealth went down the Tees. I am 100% sure if it had been the other way Remainers would have justified it as due to the EC. But as it's the other way , hey ho. Maybe the older voters knew what they were doing.
 

Juninho10

Well-known member
#74
Nah, they're not thick for wanting to stay part of the biggest trade bloc in the world, that is literally on their doorstep. Thick is leaving it, and trying to make up that trade with Trump and Australia which is on the opposite side of the world, and quite a logistical issue.

Scotland will probably eye up taking some trade that England used to have too, so expect all of England's GVA to go down and Scotland might stay the same or even go up if they ditch us. They have a lot less to lose by ditching us now we're out of the EU.

Will be even funnier when they put tariffs on everything coming from the North Sea, so we now have to buy even more raw materials from "outsiders", as we just cut off the biggest oil and gas supplier we have.

When Scotland won't let our fishermen in their waters that will be the ultimate icing on the cake, leading to ultimate gammon meltdown.
The vast majority of 'Scotland's Oil fields' which are legally British and would be negotiated in any break-up are actually close to the Shetlands, who on 11th September 2020 - " The Shetland Islands Council has voted 18-2 to explore ways of looking at independence - and claim its geographical share of North Sea oil. "

Again with fishing "One-quarter of all the fish landed in Scotland in 2016 was landed in Shetland" - so if Shetland Leave, Scotland are definitely buggered
 

Juninho10

Well-known member
#75
I recently read a report in Middlesbrough & Stockton employment between 1973 and now. Basically during this period under the umbrella of the EC all industrial wealth went down the Tees. I am 100% sure if it had been the other way Remainers would have justified it as due to the EC. But as it's the other way , hey ho. Maybe the older voters knew what they were doing.
It's quite obvious Same_as_before that some posters on this thread HATE being British/English, if the European Union is so good, there is 25+ countries to choose from - no one is keeping them in a land they hate
 

NYboro

Well-known member
#77
It's quite obvious Same_as_before that some posters on this thread HATE being British/English, if the European Union is so good, there is 25+ countries to choose from - no one is keeping them in a land they hate
Bollox - we like being English and part of the EU. I hate the idea of seeing the country going down the tubes because of a misplaced sense of "greatness".
 
#79
I recently read a report in Middlesbrough & Stockton employment between 1973 and now. Basically during this period under the umbrella of the EC all industrial wealth went down the Tees. I am 100% sure if it had been the other way Remainers would have justified it as due to the EC. But as it's the other way , hey ho. Maybe the older voters knew what they were doing.
Are you seriously suggesting joining the EU caused the decimation of industry? Were you alive at the time? There was the small matter of a decade of Thatcherism and mass privatisation. This is why I just cant see how anybody from our area could go along with rampant capitalism and neo-liberalism because these ideologies totally destroyed the industry that our area depended on. this is on top of the damage it also caused to the environment and geo-politics.
 

Statto1

Active member
#80
I recently read a report in Middlesbrough & Stockton employment between 1973 and now. Basically during this period under the umbrella of the EC all industrial wealth went down the Tees. I am 100% sure if it had been the other way Remainers would have justified it as due to the EC. But as it's the other way , hey ho. Maybe the older voters knew what they were doing.
Industry was always going to go, whether we were in the EU or not, that's not the EU's fault.

When developing nations start to catch up they start to be able to do things, and do them cheaper than we do as they don't have to pay the same wages. It's literally happened forever, it's how China undercut everyone on pretty much everything, but now they're starting to have to pay higher wages.

We could have kept the industry, but you would have to go and work down a mine for £5 an hour, at extreme risk and under inhumane conditions. Can't see there being many of the older lot fit enough to do that, or the younger lot willing to do that. Those in the middle have better options, because we improved and increased our standards and diversity. Same applies to Steel, we got out priced by developing nations all over the globe, despite having our own raw materials, that's not the EU's fault.

It's not the EU's fault the rest of the world caught up, they were always going to, but being in the EU massively helped us diversify. Had we stayed on our own, not diversified and still knocking out coal and steel we would have been in a right mess by now.
 
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