Steve Gibson's fmttm Q and A - Thursday

The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Last foreign manager to achieve anything, or last English manager ?

For English I think there's a few that stand out, but to me Dyche has done brilliantly keeping Everton up with a 8 point deduction.
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The fact that that is the best speaks volumes.

Not a single Englishman has won the PL. Last one to win the European Cup was Joe Fagan 40 years ago.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
Leadbitter said the same thing about the Spanish contingent in an interview when we came down. He said something like he could sense something had changed when the players came back for pre-season and there was new players and staff everywhere, in their own group and all speaking Spanish. It created a divide straight away. I think you can understand the chairman wanting to try and avoid that happening again in the future.
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I remember that. I don’t necessarily think that means he’s against a non British manager, sounds like he values all being in it together, backed up by his other comments. Gibson seems to place a high regard on loyalty.
 
atypical_boro said:
On the one hand I agree with you, but on the other, it’s absurd now obsessed England has become with foreign managers. Who was the last one to achieve anything of any note? Look at the potential replacements for Southgate.

I don’t particularly care where our manager comes from, but it would be nice if the country as a whole actually produced some English managers who’d achieved some kind of success (ie more then just the Swedish Cup).
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I think at one point British managers were genuinely a bit behind some of their counterparts on the continent. The classic examples being how shocked Ravanelli was at the lack of professionalism and how much Wenger changed things at Arsenal.

So that perception maybe lingers a bit, but there's a lot of really good youngish English coaches in the game now, just as knowledgeable and with the same attention to detail as anyone, so it shouldn't really be an excuse anymore.

My guess is the problem now is that the big clubs want a big name, a proven winner. And it's hard to be a proven winner in England because only a tiny handful of clubs have a realistic chance of silverware. So they go for coaches who have won stuff abroad.

Loads of really good "modern" coaches in the championship and below, working wonders with limited budgets. But not high profile enough to attract the attention of the big boys unless they already have a "reputation" from their playing days.
 
festa5 said:
I think at one point British managers were genuinely a bit behind some of their counterparts on the continent. The classic examples being how shocked Ravanelli was at the lack of professionalism and how much Wenger changed things at Arsenal.

So that perception maybe lingers a bit, but there's a lot of really good youngish English coaches in the game now, just as knowledgeable and with the same attention to detail as anyone, so it shouldn't really be an excuse anymore.

My guess is the problem now is that the big clubs want a big name, a proven winner. And it's hard to be a proven winner in England because only a tiny handful of clubs have a realistic chance of silverware. So they go for coaches who have won stuff abroad.

Loads of really good "modern" coaches in the championship and below, working wonders with limited budgets. But not high profile enough to attract the attention of the big boys unless they already have a "reputation" from their playing days.
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Yes I agree with all of that.

So in a way it’s fair game that Gibson wants to prioritise English managers. It would be good if the bigger clubs started to consider them more too, but there’s no incentive really given none of them are English owned and/or care about the issue.
 
h_m_boro said:
In exactly the same boat, substitute "York" for "Stockport".

Son plays U10s footy, trains 2-3 times a week and adamant he wears his Boro top (couldn't get the shorts and socks, sold out). Lovely to see surrounded by City/Utd/Real Madrid/PSG kits.

Most of his mates are plastic City fans, not a chance he's going down that road......and thankfully he doesn't want to.

So it's April and now thinking "hope I can get one in August". Crazy.

Or could go down "alternative routes".........
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Get some handy Sicilian lads to do a number on the Errea factory in Parma ?
 
I don't think you can look at Wenger V what we had at the time.

I don't think Robson would've been a great example in terms of professionalism at the club v other English managers at the time. I think McClaren is probably a fairer comparison and he's very highly regarded in coaching terms, even now.
 
festa5 said:
Did no one raise the stocking issues at the club shop? It is farcical that you can only buy shirts at very limited windows during the season. Is he aware how bad it is?

It wouldn't have bothered me much a few years ago, but now I've got kids who wants kits (albeit ridiculously overpriced kits) it'd be nice if I didn't have to time it like a military operation to get there when they actually have some in and plan for trying to get hold of them for birthdays and Christmas months in advance.

Plus living near York there's lots of other clubs represented in the playground vying for their attention , whose shirts you can get hold of pretty much all year round.

I'm doing my best with the brainwashing and signing them up to a lifetime of heartbreak and disappointment, but the club really aren't helping me out much with that.
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In terms of living away and having kids to brainwash I found (living in London) a direct and polite letter to mr Gibson resulted in him being very helpful
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
If an English manager was given the resources that Pep or Klopp was, do you think you'd be able to make that statement?
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Ifs and buts

It’s a combination of factors - no teams have thrown more transfer money around in the last 5 years than Utd and Chelsea
Look at them now

Difficult to imagine an English one would have been any different.

You need resources and talent throughout the leadership of the club.
The nationality is irrelevant.
 
atypical_boro said:
The fact that that is the best speaks volumes.

Not a single Englishman has won the PL. Last one to win the European Cup was Joe Fagan 40 years ago.
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There haven't been many English managers at the top clubs, which won't help.

- Man United have never had a permanent English manager in the Premier League.
- Man City haven't had an English manager since the takeover.
- Arsenal haven't had an English manager in the Premier League.
- Liverpool have had 6 months of Roy Hodgson in the last 26 years.
- Chelsea have had Frank Lampard, appointed in a period of huge turmoil, overperformed and then sacked after second season struggles, then Graham Potter who wasn't even given a full season. Chelsea have struggled in general lately.

So of the 5 clubs you'd reasonably expect to win things, there have only been 3 English managers given an opportunity in the 21st century and none were given time.

It's a chicken and egg thing.
And there no English winners because of the lack of opportunity given to English managers at top clubs, or are there no opportunities because English managers haven't won anything?
 
TeaCider said:
There haven't been many English managers at the top clubs, which won't help.

- Man United have never had a permanent English manager in the Premier League.
- Man City haven't had an English manager since the takeover.
- Arsenal haven't had an English manager in the Premier League.
- Liverpool have had 6 months of Roy Hodgson in the last 26 years.
- Chelsea have had Frank Lampard, appointed in a period of huge turmoil, overperformed and then sacked after second season struggles, then Graham Potter who wasn't even given a full season. Chelsea have struggled in general lately.

So of the 5 clubs you'd reasonably expect to win things, there have only been 3 English managers given an opportunity in the 21st century and none were given time.

It's a chicken and egg thing.
And there no English winners because of the lack of opportunity given to English managers at top clubs, or are there no opportunities because English managers haven't won anything?
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Arsenal had Bruce Rioch before Wenger. Liverpool had Roy Evans in the 90s as well.

There haven't been that many PL winning managers at all though. Ferguson (13), Pep (5), Wenger (3) and Mourinho (3) have won 24 of the 31.
 
TeaCider said:
There haven't been many English managers at the top clubs, which won't help.

- Man United have never had a permanent English manager in the Premier League.
- Man City haven't had an English manager since the takeover.
- Arsenal haven't had an English manager in the Premier League.
- Liverpool have had 6 months of Roy Hodgson in the last 26 years.
- Chelsea have had Frank Lampard, appointed in a period of huge turmoil, overperformed and then sacked after second season struggles, then Graham Potter who wasn't even given a full season. Chelsea have struggled in general lately.

So of the 5 clubs you'd reasonably expect to win things, there have only been 3 English managers given an opportunity in the 21st century and none were given time.

It's a chicken and egg thing.
And there no English winners because of the lack of opportunity given to English managers at top clubs, or are there no opportunities because English managers haven't won anything?
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Potter is a good one, what he did at Brighton was amazing and although he's not won the CL some may argue what he achieved there was as impressive as say Klopp winning the league. Success may not be represented in trophies, as daft as that sounds.
 
Nano said:
Arsenal had Bruce Rioch before Wenger. Liverpool had Roy Evans in the 90s as well.

There haven't been that many PL winning managers at all though. Ferguson (13), Pep (5), Wenger (3) and Mourinho (3) have won 24 of the 31.
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Rioch would be counted as Scottish for football purposes.
 
BoroMart said:
I wouldn't assume that at all. In fact I'd only assume Ayling is one of those as he has had a massive impact and was a massive loss against Leeds too. I'm not convinced we will sign the other two. Not that they are bad players, but O'Brien might be difficult to make the numbers work and get real value for money, and Greenwood is a 2 year project to be a top champo player, and 3 year to be prem ready.
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Greenwood will never make a premier league player
 
atypical_boro said:
The fact that that is the best speaks volumes.

Not a single Englishman has won the PL. Last one to win the European Cup was Joe Fagan 40 years ago.
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I feel it's a British psyche thing. We lord over managers and coaches by their playing reputation and on field fire in their belly, not by intellect. The intellectuals are looked down on by the masses, who wait for them to fail and want to kick them, the pressure is immediately on them, intellectuals are generally not trusted in this country. The thing is to be a top manager, you need to be an intellectual, you need analysis skills, problem solving skills, to have absorbed lots of information and never stop learning, you need masses of emotional intelligence, you don't need to have been a great player or be shouty. Totally different skills required as a manager or coach from being a top player. I'm sure there will be loads of guys either decided not to be a manager, or were not given the opportunities because they were too clever.

I feel that the desire for a "big name" rather than the cleverest gut has held back our managers compared to foreign guys. I mean Sven, Wenger, Mourinho hardly great players, but intellectuals. Pep was a very good player, but is clearly an intelligent guy too. Klopp is clearly more intelligent as a manager than a player. I think we give a pass to foreign guys who are intellectual, because they're not part of the british class system.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Potter is a good one, what he did at Brighton was amazing and although he's not won the CL some may argue what he achieved there was as impressive as say Klopp winning the league. Success may not be represented in trophies, as daft as that sounds.
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It doesn't sound daft, success should always be relative
 
TeaCider said:
There haven't been many English managers at the top clubs, which won't help.

- Man United have never had a permanent English manager in the Premier League.
- Man City haven't had an English manager since the takeover.
- Arsenal haven't had an English manager in the Premier League.
- Liverpool have had 6 months of Roy Hodgson in the last 26 years.
- Chelsea have had Frank Lampard, appointed in a period of huge turmoil, overperformed and then sacked after second season struggles, then Graham Potter who wasn't even given a full season. Chelsea have struggled in general lately.

So of the 5 clubs you'd reasonably expect to win things, there have only been 3 English managers given an opportunity in the 21st century and none were given time.

It's a chicken and egg thing.
And there no English winners because of the lack of opportunity given to English managers at top clubs, or are there no opportunities because English managers haven't won anything?
Click to expand...
Seems the case - you don't get many English/British managers getting an opportunity in the Premier League now let alone the big six, only really Gary O'Niel who hasn't been promoted there in recent times. Also look at the top of the Championship and of the top six, Southampton have Martin and the Ipswich manager was again promoted there. A lot of the new bread of English coaches seem to come across well, so maybe that's something that will change over the next decade, perhaps the generation before that were too schooled in the Pulis, Redknapp type ways!
 
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