Starmer on Marr this morning

Nor does your personal experience, or your snide assumptions.

Erasmus is gone now. The Turing Scheme is the alternative. If it works, then great and the opportunity for students to spend time overseas will be there. Brexit might have damaged chances, it hasn't excised them completely.
 
Nor does your personal experience, or your snide assumptions.

Erasmus is gone now. The Turing Scheme is the alternative. If it works, then great and the opportunity for students to spend time overseas will be there. Brexit might have damaged chances, it hasn't excised them completely.
My snide assumptions? You're the one who accuse me of stating opinion as fact. You're also the one that falsely represented a law student's chances of getting an Erasmus grant.

I also know Erasmus has gone - hence my point in the first place. To be replaced by a scheme that is more hot air from the lads who brought you the withdrawal agreement, track and trace and operation moonshot.

The Turing scheme could be a success, but asking British universities to set up a global exchange scheme in 9 months without the network provided by Erasmus, with less money and with more red tape, is a big ask.

But as with all things Brexit, it's for someone else to sort out. People with experience of these things, experience that you have so charmingly denigrated on this thread.
 
Erasmus has been cancelled, so there's no formal way of doing it. That would mean she'd have to organise entry herself, likely entailing tuition costs. She'd also have to organise her own health insurance for a year after the loss of EHIC and apply for a visa out of her own pocket (a student working as a cashier, so not a top earner).
EHIC still valid whilst in date then replaced by GHIC.
 
Exactly - temporary triumphalism as seen from the OP is all they have. Reality will show that the whole thing is a pointless endeavour that has needlessly split the country and made people poorer.

In ten years, as accession talks drag on, you'll struggle to find anyone who'll admit to voting for it
The purpose of my post was not triumphalism but pleasure to see Starmer bringing much needed reality to the situation. He has clearly learned from the last election and in my view becomes more electable
 
:rolleyes:

It's no wonder the tories always win when working on a supermarket checkout means "middle class" to people.

That was as a broader comment in regards to why we don't see more WC kids in Erasmus. If this lass had applied, she would have been accepted whatever her background. There isn't a box that asks 'what do your mum and dad do?' on the form, nor is there a sorting centre in Brussels that ensures only Tarquin and India get picked.

The Tories always win because they lie and people believe them. As this thread outlines.
 
So we are clear that the post stating the young lady won’t be able to spend a year in Europe is flawed on a number of the assumptions made. Don’t let this obsession to prove brexit is a bad thing stand in the way of your judgement.bring concrete examples not just made up stuff!
 
So we are clear that the post stating the young lady won’t be able to spend a year in Europe is flawed on a number of the assumptions made. Don’t let this obsession to prove brexit is a bad thing stand in the way of your judgement.bring concrete examples not just made up stuff!
No. It's not flawed. What exchange programme does she have access to?

At the time of writing there isn't one. That's a concrete example.
 
Hundred room
That good enough for you Bonny lad ?
That’s what is making it very very difficult for her when it didn’t need to be but we’ve left now....
Hope I’m alive to witness the next referendum that takes us back in. But on a much worse deal
if you think applying for a visa and getting health insurance are major hurdles for a 19 year old teenager to overcome while working in a foreign country not knowing the language well, it is nothing compared to the real problems she would likely face.
As someone said Erasmus was no guarantee and is being replaced by Turing
 
I was talking to a girl at the check out in Tesco today. She's working part time while studying a law degree. She was hoping to spend a year in Europe, but is probably not able to now.

At 19 she's one of the generation with no voice. Too young to vote in 2016 but now dealing with the ***** of older people.
Did you ask what her aspirations were to do in Europe ?
Although it is not fair to jump to conclusions its not difficult to work out what opportunities exist for an unqualified 19 year old


My advice would be to get qualified in her chosen field and have the rest of her life to fulfill foreign ambitions. The world doesn't stop at Europe either
 
Did you ask what her aspirations were to do in Europe ?
Although it is not fair to jump to conclusions its not difficult to work out what opportunities exist for an unqualified 19 year old


My advice would be to get qualified in her chosen field and have the rest of her life to fulfill foreign ambitions. The world doesn't stop at Europe either
So you think living and working abroad should only be for those who have the right qualifications?

Looks like Brexit was very much about keeping the young and the working classes in their place (literally!)
 
I'm rather more focused on the scandal of university fees and cost of accommodation versus the value for money being received by those saddled with debt for pursuing a degree.
That somebody can't quite as easily do part of their degree, or get a placement abroad is absolutely trivial by comparison.
 
Starmers comments I found a bit baffling to be honest. If he is expecting the govt deal to be a great success then of course he's not going to say he would change it - that would be political suicide.

But is he really expecting that? Surely not. And if by the time of the next election the current trade deal can be measurably demonstrated to be something of a drag on the economy then I think the vast majority of people would want a change of some sort, which requires some form of renegotiation.

Im not saying he should promise a new ref, far from it. Im not saying he should promise a customs union or more trade offs in the single market, but to come flat out and say he wont make any changes to the deal is either naïve or he's frankly trying to blatantly pull the wool over the eyes of the red wall former labour Brexit voters.

By the time of the next election Brexit will have either been a success of failure. If its the latter and your policy is to do nothing about it then why bother voting labour to be honest?
 
I'm rather more focused on the scandal of university fees and cost of accommodation versus the value for money being received by those saddled with debt for pursuing a degree.
That somebody can't quite as easily do part of their degree, or get a placement abroad is absolutely trivial by comparison.

Fees and accomodation are a scandal. Those who run universities are some of the greediest, callous and inept in the country.

But just because a scandal is underway in our universities doesn't discount from the fact that the government policy has taken opportunities away from students.
 
No. It's not flawed. What exchange programme does she have access to?

At the time of writing there isn't one. That's a concrete example.
It’s not clear from the example whether she wanted to travel or work, regardless there are ways and means to do either of these things. They may not be the same as before but that’s the point when you leave a club , new rules apply, it’s a hardly a surprise - did you expect it to stay exactly the same as before?
 
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You could hardly say their stance on the EU was clear and that’s from a Labour voter.

they seemed to base their strategy on if we don’t have an opinion then we won’t up set either side.
I think Labour were clear on what they were going to do but not clear on what the outcome was going to be (because they didn’t know).

And this at a time people were fatigued and wanted some certainty one way or the other.
 
It’s not clear from the example whether she wanted to travel or work, regardless there are ways and means to do either of these things. They may not be the same as before but that’s the point when you leave a club , new rules apply, it’s a hardly a surprise - did you expect it to stay exactly the same as before?

You've made my point for me here -

I didn't expect things to be the same as before - hence why this whole debacle is a bad idea.

Moreover, it's young people who didn't vote for it who are paying the price.

And 'they may not be the same as before' are such weasel words. It will be more difficult and more expensive to do these things, reducing the opportunities for less privileged people. Before Brexit anyone could move to anywhere else in the EU, regardless of qualifications, age or anything else. Now they're subject to the caprices of the immigration system of each individual country. It is a step down - with no discernible benefit.
 
It’s not clear from the example whether she wanted to travel or work, regardless there are ways and means to do either of these things. They may not be the same as before but that’s the point when you leave a club , new rules apply, it’s a hardly a surprise - did you expect it to stay exactly the same as before?
That is what was promised.
 
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