Starmer is a lying rat/Corbyn was chuffing useless - discuss

asredastheycome said:
Because thats what the Party voted on at Conference and he said he would abide by their decision.
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I’m aware of that.
If that gives leaders a free pass I can assume everyone is ok with Starmer going along doing what he’s doing as long as the party support it?

And, by the way, you knew that’s not what I meant.
The discussion was about people sticking to their principles.

This is what sickens me about people at the moment.

Both have their faults - have a dig at Starmer for going against his principles and that’s fine and dandy.
Have a go at Corbyn - nah, we’ll not have that.

It’s petty, it’s dogmatic and just a bit cack really.


A good response would have been - yes you have a point there., Fair do’s
 
1finny said:
I’m aware of that.
If that gives leaders a free pass I can assume everyone is ok with Starmer going along doing what he’s doing as long as the party support it?

And, by the way, you knew that’s not what I meant.
The discussion was about people sticking to their principles.

This is what sickens me about people at the moment.

Both have their faults - have a dig at Starmer for going against his principles and that’s fine and dandy.
Have a go at Corbyn - nah, we’ll not have that.

It’s petty, it’s dogmatic and just a bit cack really.


A good response would have been - yes you have a point there., Fair do’s
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Is it not possible for Corbyn to be personally against Nuclear weapons but go with what the party decides, or are you suggesting that he has abandoned his own principles and become pro Nuclear weapons?
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Is it not possible for Corbyn to be personally against Nuclear weapons but go with what the party decides, or are you suggesting that he has abandoned his own principles and become pro Nuclear weapons?
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Of course it is. I understand why he did it. It’s called compromise (see my first comment on this thread).
I didn’t agree with his position of Trident but still voted for the party.

I understand why Starmer is doing what he does and the same can be said - not abandoning his principles but compromising to make sure he is leading the country.

I don’t agree with Starmer on some issues too - I will still vote for the party

JC v KS has become just another divisive issue.

The only people that helps - are the Tories who have encouraged and thrived on division for the last 12 years.
 
1finny said:
I’m aware of that.
If that gives leaders a free pass I can assume everyone is ok with Starmer going along doing what he’s doing as long as the party support it?

And, by the way, you knew that’s not what I meant.
The discussion was about people sticking to their principles.

This is what sickens me about people at the moment.

Both have their faults - have a dig at Starmer for going against his principles and that’s fine and dandy.
Have a go at Corbyn - nah, we’ll not have that.

It’s petty, it’s dogmatic and just a bit cack really.


A good response would have been - yes you have a point there., Fair do’s
Click to expand...
But your point seems to be that we know what Starmer's principles are.

I might be missing something but there doesn't appear to be very much evidence for any long- standing principles that Starmer can be held to account over.

The fact he has misled/lied to the members all the way through his leadership is a cause for concern.

We seem to be seeing the same thing from a different level of leniency.

I'm happy to forgive Corbyn for toeing the party line as, to me, is the grown up thing to do. You have your principles and you compromise where required - or choose not to compromise and step aside.

Doing the former doesn't mean you've abandoned your principles.

It also, to my mind at least, does that you've actually thought about the issues.

What is Starmer's default position on nuclear war?

What is Starmer's default position on the EU?

I don't know and I doubt anyone outside his closest circle does.
 
bumface said:
I love Starmer really. I've been lying to you all for years about that. I think he's mint, and I really fancy him too. He's got so much charisma, and he definitely doesn't have the most boring voice in the world, and he's just so f*cking forensic.
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Me too, and when Starmer said “I support Zionism without qualification” this means that he didn't actually support the supremacist, colonialist, terrorist organisation that is Zionism, because he's saying the opposite of what he believes until he gets elected, right?
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Me too, and when Starmer said “I support Zionism without qualification” this means that he didn't actually support the supremacist, colonialist, terrorist organisation that is Zionism, because he's saying the opposite of what he believes until he gets elected, right?
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Astonishing, isn't it? He's playing the long, mate. He's going to take a massive swerve to the left as soon as he gets into power and then he'll come out with a load of really progressive policies. His supporters actually believe that's going to happen. It's insane.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Me too, and when Starmer said “I support Zionism without qualification” this means that he didn't actually support the supremacist, colonialist, terrorist organisation that is Zionism, because he's saying the opposite of what he believes until he gets elected, right?
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This fella was Jeremys bat man and one time advocate. He is the architect of Momentum along side the other founder Mr Schneider who is also a Jew. Show me his and Kier Starmers differences please. I have several articles that I'm looking through at the moment.
www.newstatesman.com

Jon Lansman: what the left gets wrong about Israel

The Momentum founder on his kibbutznik past, how progressives should respond to anti-Semitism and Jeremy Corbyn’s mistakes.
www.newstatesman.com www.newstatesman.com
 
mercury_redstone7 said:
This fella was Jeremys bat man and one time advocate. He is the architect of Momentum along side the other founder Mr Schneider who is also a Jew. Show me his and Kier Starmers differences please. I have several articles that I'm looking through at the moment.
www.newstatesman.com

Jon Lansman: what the left gets wrong about Israel

The Momentum founder on his kibbutznik past, how progressives should respond to anti-Semitism and Jeremy Corbyn’s mistakes.
www.newstatesman.com www.newstatesman.com
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I don't really understand what point you're making.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
“I support Zionism without qualification”
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Not like you to miss out what Starmer says in the next breath. “If the definition of ‘Zionist’ is someone who believes in the state of Israel, in that sense I’m a Zionist.”

Tell me BBG, do you believe in the state of Israel?

A simple yes or no will do just fine
 
LessoftheLip said:
Not like you to miss out what Starmer says in the next breath. “If the definition of ‘Zionist’ is someone who believes in the state of Israel, in that sense I’m a Zionist.”

Tell me BBG, do you believe in the state of Israel?

A simple yes or no will do just fine
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Here's the full quote in the Times of Israel.

“I do support Zionism,” he later told Jewish News. “I absolutely support the right of Israel to exist as a homeland. My only concern is that Zionism can mean slightly different things to different people, and… to some extent it has been weaponized. I wouldn’t read too much into that. I said it loud and clear — and meant it — that I support Zionism without qualification.”

He thinks Zionism has been weaponised.
 
Scrote said:
But your point seems to be that we know what Starmer's principles are.

I might be missing something but there doesn't appear to be very much evidence for any long- standing principles that Starmer can be held to account over.

The fact he has misled/lied to the members all the way through his leadership is a cause for concern.

We seem to be seeing the same thing from a different level of leniency.

I'm happy to forgive Corbyn for toeing the party line as, to me, is the grown up thing to do. You have your principles and you compromise where required - or choose not to compromise and step aside.

Doing the former doesn't mean you've abandoned your principles.

It also, to my mind at least, does that you've actually thought about the issues.

What is Starmer's default position on nuclear war?

What is Starmer's default position on the EU?

I don't know and I doubt anyone outside his closest circle does.
Click to expand...

Here’s my thinking
You don’t know about Starmer’s principles because you can’t be asred to do your research.
He is pro Europe
He supports the nuclear deterrent

I have said I understand why both compromised their principles.

I could do a job on JC, much like you have done on Starmer but I won’t.

You will forgive JC (as I have done).
I’ll be fair to both
You come across as dogmatic.
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Then why use it as evidence that you can't tell where he stands on a particular issue, if you actually know where he stands and understand why he had to do it?
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From Mr Dogma (on this issue)
JC ❤️ KS👹

I have been really clear in explaining but you don’t give a firk, just want to fight- plus ca change

I’ll leave you to it
 
1finny said:
Here’s my thinking
You don’t know about Starmer’s principles because you can’t be asred to do your research.
He is pro Europe
He supports the nuclear deterrent

I have said I understand why both compromised their principles.

I could do a job on JC, much like you have done on Starmer but I won’t.

You will forgive JC (as I have done).
I’ll be fair to both
You come across as dogmatic.



From Mr Dogma (on this issue)
JC ❤️ KS👹

I have been really clear in explaining but you don’t give a firk, just want to fight- plus ca change

I’ll leave you to it
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The question was why did you pretend you didn't know what Corbyn's principles were?
 
Didn't like Corbyn at all. Starmer is a bit meh but better than any alternative for me.
 
I think it's probably about time we stop talking about Corbyn, we are starting to sound like Tories.
 
1finny said:
I’ve not heard 1 person blame Brexit on Corbyn.
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MoggasDog said:
But I did feel very let down by him over Brexit.
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Alzi said:
This pretty sums up my feelings re Brexit. Alistair Campbell has been very vocal re JC’s lack of Brexit leadership and it’s hard to disagree.

With more leadership instead of waiting to see which way the wind blows we would still be in the EU. There is little doubt in my mind about it.
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LessoftheLip said:
We wouldn't have had this Brexit clusterfcuk but for Corbyn
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1finny said:
you can’t be asred to do your research.
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BlindBoyGrunt said:
Here's the full quote in the Times of Israel.

“I do support Zionism,” he later told Jewish News. “I absolutely support the right of Israel to exist as a homeland. My only concern is that Zionism can mean slightly different things to different people, and… to some extent it has been weaponized. I wouldn’t read too much into that. I said it loud and clear — and meant it — that I support Zionism without qualification.”

He thinks Zionism has been weaponised.
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You are being completely disingenuous but that comes as no surprise.

If you're quoting The Times of Israel why don't you link the full article?

Tell you what I'll do it for you.


He also told the Jewish Chronicle: “If the definition of ‘Zionist’ is someone who believes in the state of Israel, in that sense I’m a Zionist."

So I'll ask you the question again seeing as you swerved it the first time around.

Do you believe in the state of Israel?
 
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