Starmer calls for nationwide lockdown in next 24 hrs

Pog said:
1) In the last parliament they tabled amendment after amendment on Brexit and recalled parliament for additional sittings in very short notice. There’s no reason they can’t for this. Using your logic the government know that all they have to do is shorten the time for debates and amendments and they can do whatever they want unopposed.

2) You’ve failed to address the point. Using your logic Labour should abstain or vote for anything the Tories table in parliament as if they didn’t they’d get accused by the media of blocking the government. That’s not even opposition nevermind effective opposition.

3) That’s why I said he needs to go direct into the tv studios, where he can speak direct to people not via the print media.

Considering he has supported most things the government have done thus far it is very hard for him to criticise, or offer an alternative - when he is partly responsible for the current situation. He’ll find himself in a similar situation with regards to the Brexit deal he whipped his party to endorse.

People compare the bloke to Tony Blair, it’s laughable he isn’t even Nicola Sturgeon.
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The lockdown legally ended there was no time to do anything else as this was the timetable set by the government, if it did not pass there would have been no restrictions at all. Its not my logic, you're twisting my words and it would not work for normal business. Incase you never noticed we are in a pandemic.

Again you're twisting what I'm saying, this situation is not normal and Labour also need to look at the big picture which includes making decisions that prevent obvious damaging attacks on the party. They can't oppose without alternative, they can't produce an alternative without the latest data.

Opposition for opposition sake is not opposition.

What TV studios will have a Labour leader on to repeatedly attack the government or air his statements without them pushing their own narrative?

Keir Starmer or Labour are not even partly responsible for the current situation. Nothing they would have done would have made a difference against the Tory majority in reality.

Everything he does or would have done wouldn't matter to you, you'd find fault regardless. I'm done caring.
 
Pog said:
I don’t live in his constituency so I won’t be voting for him, but if there was an election tomorrow I would vote Labour.

It wouldn’t be because I believe they’re going to make this country a better place to live in, that they’d have a transformative policy agenda or they’d take on the vested interests in society.

As it stands it would be hold my nose and vote for them because they’re less s***e than what we currently have.

Which is thoroughly depressing.
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A country without a credible Opposition is a one party state.
Im sure Mr Starmer is a very nice man, but as a politician he is a charlatan and a cameleon - and I`l leave it there(y)
 
r00fie1 said:
A country without a credible Opposition is a one party state.
Im sure Mr Starmer is a very nice man, but as a politician he is a charlatan and a cameleon - and I`l leave it there(y)
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I think Starmer is doing a great job, what we lack just now with the lying unreliable Johnson as PM is a credible government.

Hard to accept if you are a Tory, but an inconvenient truth 👍
 
FatCat said:
It’s not ludicrous it’s fact - I posted on here pre Christmas about the gvt planning 24/7 vaccination centres, so for him to try and pass it off as his idea is laughable.
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How is 'calling' for something to happen an attempt to take credit or to pass it off as his idea? Did he actually say 'it's my idea to..........'? No he didn't. Besides, the Government doesn't have any plans but the NHS does. It is laughable that anybody can be criticising him for this. It's typical deflection by Tories who can't bring themselves to criticise Johnson and his endless series of u-turns.
 
BoroFur said:
How is 'calling' for something to happen an attempt to take credit or to pass it off as his idea? Did he actually say 'it's my idea to..........'? No he didn't. Besides, the Government doesn't have any plans but the NHS does. It is laughable that anybody can be criticising him for this. It's typical deflection by Tories who can't bring themselves to criticise Johnson and his endless series of u-turns.
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He’s calling for something to happen that is already happening under the Tories - what is the point of that?
 
FatCat said:
He’s calling for something to happen that is already happening under the Tories - what is the point of that?
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He addressed the captain hindsight comment beautifully in parliament with the previous lockdown and on numerous other occassions.

He doesn't pass of ideas in the pipeline as his own and has called for more stringent lockdowns since the turn of the autumn. Hardly hindsight, and to be honest, everyone could see where things were heading and Johnson ignored it, hoping against all available evidence for a different outcome.

Disengenous to suggest that he is only echoing a tory policy yet to be implemented.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1346088853355040768

Here's another just after christmas (when the EU deal was announced)...

To me the polls look how you'd expect them to, reflecting two things.

1) The tories seem unable to drop below high 30s low 40s - because the opposition aren't attacking them.

2) Labour have risen back up to more like the numbers you'd expect them to be on based on the Miliband and early Corbyn years - because the media aren't relentlessly attacking them anymore.
 
I'm going back a few pages to some of the comments about selfish morons and entitled people - just to get this off my chest.

I know an NHS doctor who blatantly visits family members in their homes yet posts repeatedly on facebook that everyone should follow the rules.

I know a very elderly couple who keep everyone at more than arms length, and have a good moan about other people's behaviour. Yet when it comes to their two children, and four grandchildren, they are in their house, nearly every week, or they drive 100 miles to visit them! Overnight stays par for the course

And I know another woman who has about 25 bubbles, who thinks that as long as she's only in 1 each day then that's fine.

All of them come across as if the problem is caused by others, they are either ignorant, thick, don't care - or all three.

Makes my blood boil.
 
SuperStu said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1346088853355040768

Here's another just after christmas (when the EU deal was announced)...

To me the polls look how you'd expect them to, reflecting two things.

1) The tories seem unable to drop below high 30s low 40s - because the opposition aren't attacking them.

2) Labour have risen back up to more like the numbers you'd expect them to be on based on the Miliband and early Corbyn years - because the media aren't relentlessly attacking them anymore.
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The problem with the poll you show is that it just extrapolates the number of votes over the country. The yougov polling mechaism is much more accurate and sophisticated.

That said, you would definately expect a bounce for the tories after the deal was announced.

I don't agree with your conclusions though. What the polls show is that even unseen, floating voters are moving from conservative to labour. The conservatives have had largely a free pass during covid with very few channels calling out their ineptitude and corruption, yet still people believe they are screwing things up.

In the poll I looked at, the SNP made huge gains and it was looking very much like a hung parliament with the tories gaining 2 more seats than Labour which probably accurately depicts where the country is today.
 
Heine_Otto said:
I'm going back a few pages to some of the comments about selfish morons and entitled people - just to get this off my chest.

I know an NHS doctor who blatantly visits family members in their homes yet posts repeatedly on facebook that everyone should follow the rules.

I know a very elderly couple who keep everyone at more than arms length, and have a good moan about other people's behaviour. Yet when it comes to their two children, and four grandchildren, they are in their house, nearly every week, or they drive 100 miles to visit them! Overnight stays par for the course

And I know another woman who has about 25 bubbles, who thinks that as long as she's only in 1 each day then that's fine.

All of them come across as if the problem is caused by others, they are either ignorant, thick, don't care - or all three.

Makes my blood boil.
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I suspect Heine they are complaining about kids going to raves, for example, or having house parties. If they can deflect to folks whos behaviour is worse than theirs, it justifies, kinda, their actions.
 
Heine_Otto said:
I'm going back a few pages to some of the comments about selfish morons and entitled people - just to get this off my chest.

I know an NHS doctor who blatantly visits family members in their homes yet posts repeatedly on facebook that everyone should follow the rules.

I know a very elderly couple who keep everyone at more than arms length, and have a good moan about other people's behaviour. Yet when it comes to their two children, and four grandchildren, they are in their house, nearly every week, or they drive 100 miles to visit them! Overnight stays par for the course

And I know another woman who has about 25 bubbles, who thinks that as long as she's only in 1 each day then that's fine.

All of them come across as if the problem is caused by others, they are either ignorant, thick, don't care - or all three.

Makes my blood boil.
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There's the nub of the problem, everyone is able to now justify their own 'slight' deviation from the rules. Whether this was always the case or is down to fatigue I don't know, but there certainly seemed more collective buy in last Spring. IMHO that 'buy in' and collective will has been squandered by on-going failure to get on top of this pandemic and the constant false hopes of returning to normal by last Summer, Autumn, Christmas and now Easter!
 
Laughing said:
A tip I was given a few years ago on a leadership course was to write down all the things that are stressing you. Then circle the ones that you can address and make a plan for those. The act of taking some control and accepting those things that you have to live with does help.

I stopped worrying about rule breakers quite some time ago, though we are quite lucky and live in a smaller town, village really where most people obey the rules and look our for each other.
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It's called the Circle of Influence and it is from Steven Covey's book - 7 habits of highly effective people.
 
hewielewie said:
It's called the Circle of Influence and it is from Steven Covey's book - 7 habits of highly effective people.
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That is the best ‘management’ book I have read, some great life advice in there.

Stuff like save time by taking time to sharpen your tools, make sure you are very efficiently cutting down the right forest, don’t saw sawdust, very good stuff 👍
 
Laughing said:
I see this morning in a yougov poll conducted just before christmas that, according to the poll on voting intention the conservative majority has gone, completely.
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And yet prior to all the Tory ineptitude with Covid we were told that "any other Labour leader" would be 20 points ahead.

So Starmer is ~20 points away from what most Labour commentators thought would be the standard for a competent leader. Hardly something to crow about.


HolgateCorner said:
make sure you are very efficiently cutting down the right forest, don’t saw sawdust, very good stuff
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...bit bad for climate change :ROFLMAO:
 
Scrote said:
And yet prior to all the Tory ineptitude with Covid we were told that "any other Labour leader" would be 20 points ahead.

So Starmer is ~20 points away from what most Labour commentators thought would be the standard for a competent leader. Hardly something to crow about.



...bit bad for climate change :ROFLMAO:
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Anyone saying labour would be 20 points ahead knows nothing about politics, who are these commentators you are referring to?
 
Laughing said:
Anyone saying labour would be 20 points ahead knows nothing about politics, who are these commentators you are referring to?
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Labour should be 20 points ahead

Labour should be 20 points ahead

Labour should be 20 points ahead

Not an extenisve list - just first page of Google. Proves it was definitely 'a thing' and that people who probably know something about politics were pushing it.

If you haven't heard it before then you haven't been paying attention.

If you're pretending you haven't heard it before then...
 
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