Starmer - Britain's Trump

Its all very well Jenkins carping on about stuff like this but would he rather they don't do anything about a bloated Health service mid management. I suspect no but then again it it gives him ammunition for his opinion piece. All he says is "it remains to be seen if it works". Er yes Simon thanks for that wisdom.
Bloated middle management is just management consultant talk. The NHS is already under-managed. Other industries are similar. Someone on the outside that has no idea how things actually run assumes everyone that isn't doing the core work (in this case seeing patients) is unproductive and expendable bloat. What happens every time is a load of jobs get cut, the frontline becomes less productive and then roles are created to do those jobs that were cut again. It saves a load of money in the short term (if you exclude the redundancy costs) but in the long term they all get hired again because they weren't doing nothing but you also have several years of demoralised, overworked and stressed staff that don't know if they will be at risk and/or will be given twice as much work to do as they already have.

Everyone seems to assume everyone else in their business is useless and unproductive. Managers think staff aren't doing enough. Staff think managers are rubbish and a waste of space but in the majority of cases most of those people are needed which is why they were hired in the first place. Everyone thinks HR or IT or Finance just get in the way. They all say they are overworked and overstretched but don't realise that by getting rid of people they will have to take that work on and it will make things worse.

It wasn't really mentioned anywhere yesterday but they also announced they will be slashing jobs at the ICBs. That makes a bit more sense because CCGs merged into ICBs so there will be some crossover although those roles were being phased out through restructures and attrition anyway. It will be interesting to see if they stop asking for so much information from providers which could reduce workload but my guess would be that different department structures will want different data in different ways which is going to create more work for providers as we'll lose the knowledge that people have.
 
Let me be clear. When I started this thread, I didn't mean to suggest that somehow Starmer was exactly like, or alot like Trump. I was pointing out that he was becoming more Trump like; in slashing public sector jobs, punishing people who opposed him or his policies, being cruel to the weak and vulnerable, cutting social support, attacking journalists, showing contempt for the rule of law etc. All of this seems to be accelerating. We have got to a point where the government is boasting in the commons that its policies are more tory than the Tories. Where will it end?
 
Bloated middle management is just management consultant talk. The NHS is already under-managed. Other industries are similar. Someone on the outside that has no idea how things actually run assumes everyone that isn't doing the core work (in this case seeing patients) is unproductive and expendable bloat. What happens every time is a load of jobs get cut, the frontline becomes less productive and then roles are created to do those jobs that were cut again. It saves a load of money in the short term (if you exclude the redundancy costs) but in the long term they all get hired again because they weren't doing nothing but you also have several years of demoralised, overworked and stressed staff that don't know if they will be at risk and/or will be given twice as much work to do as they already have.

Everyone seems to assume everyone else in their business is useless and unproductive. Managers think staff aren't doing enough. Staff think managers are rubbish and a waste of space but in the majority of cases most of those people are needed which is why they were hired in the first place. Everyone thinks HR or IT or Finance just get in the way. They all say they are overworked and overstretched but don't realise that by getting rid of people they will have to take that work on and it will make things worse.

It wasn't really mentioned anywhere yesterday but they also announced they will be slashing jobs at the ICBs. That makes a bit more sense because CCGs merged into ICBs so there will be some crossover although those roles were being phased out through restructures and attrition anyway. It will be interesting to see if they stop asking for so much information from providers which could reduce workload but my guess would be that different department structures will want different data in different ways which is going to create more work for providers as we'll lose the knowledge that people have.
It's always great to read the view from someone with actual knowledge of the sector, and interesting to note that it's almost always very different to those regurgitating 'bloated', 'waste', 'meaningless' etc.
 
Let me be clear. When I started this thread, I didn't mean to suggest that somehow Starmer was exactly like, or alot like Trump. I was pointing out that he was becoming more Trump like; in slashing public sector jobs, punishing people who opposed him or his policies, being cruel to the weak and vulnerable, cutting social support, attacking journalists, showing contempt for the rule of law etc. All of this seems to be accelerating. We have got to a point where the government is boasting in the commons that its policies are more tory than the Tories. Where will it end?
Can't actually disagree with much of that.
 
Because any thread with the word "Starmer" in it is a red rag to a bull on this forum for certain individuals it seems.
I assume I am one of those certain individuals? Despite the fact I have twice said on this thread that I don’t think it to be the case?

Righto.
 
I think the hate Starmer gets in this country is pretty pathetic and I don't even like the fella.

The Tories made such a circus out of UK politics that anyone who isn't a cartoon character is bizarrely more targeted for criticism than the shower that went before.
 
What was his resignation letter all about then?
You know what, I had genuinely forgotten about that, so quick and cynical was his volte face after Corbyn was re-elected. Apologies, you are of course correct. A would be assassin without even the courage of his convictions to stick by his decision after the assassination failed.
 
I think the hate Starmer gets in this country is pretty pathetic and I don't even like the fella.

The Tories made such a circus out of UK politics that anyone who isn't a cartoon character is bizarrely more targeted for criticism than the shower that went before.
The right wing propaganda via social media has confused the working class vote so many don’t know what to think any more.

On the plus side there are signs this has even started to work against Farage and Reform so they may have overdone it.
 
The right wing propaganda via social media has confused the working class vote so many don’t know what to think any more.

On the plus side there are signs this has even started to work against Farage and Reform so they may have overdone it.
Confused? People are just thick.
 
Bloated middle management is just management consultant talk. The NHS is already under-managed. Other industries are similar. Someone on the outside that has no idea how things actually run assumes everyone that isn't doing the core work (in this case seeing patients) is unproductive and expendable bloat. What happens every time is a load of jobs get cut, the frontline becomes less productive and then roles are created to do those jobs that were cut again. It saves a load of money in the short term (if you exclude the redundancy costs) but in the long term they all get hired again because they weren't doing nothing but you also have several years of demoralised, overworked and stressed staff that don't know if they will be at risk and/or will be given twice as much work to do as they already have.

Everyone seems to assume everyone else in their business is useless and unproductive. Managers think staff aren't doing enough. Staff think managers are rubbish and a waste of space but in the majority of cases most of those people are needed which is why they were hired in the first place. Everyone thinks HR or IT or Finance just get in the way. They all say they are overworked and overstretched but don't realise that by getting rid of people they will have to take that work on and it will make things worse.

It wasn't really mentioned anywhere yesterday but they also announced they will be slashing jobs at the ICBs. That makes a bit more sense because CCGs merged into ICBs so there will be some crossover although those roles were being phased out through restructures and attrition anyway. It will be interesting to see if they stop asking for so much information from providers which could reduce workload but my guess would be that different department structures will want different data in different ways which is going to create more work for providers as we'll lose the knowledge that people have.
I remember reading somewhere a few years ago ( I think it was in the Guardian), that compared to middle and large size private sector companies, that the NHS and all other public sector services, had a lower and in some cases much lower ratio of Managers to all other staff and also a lower ratio of support staff to the actual operational staff. It's also been true, that for over 45 years, the public sector has been audited, examined, restructured, realigned, modernised (not) and lots of other words that I can't remember, on at least an annual basis. The article went onto state, that if a private company was made to do that, they would go out of business in a very short peiod of time.
 
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