Sheff Wed 12 POINT PENALTY

#41
No - they need to enforce fairly & consistently.
As a club we benefitted greatly from the largess of our chairman. If FFP had been around in 1995 no juninho, no ravanelli, no cup finals. It is not in place to protect clubs from bankruptcy, it is in place to freeze the established order in their place. They need to get rid of it.

The governance of football over the last few years has just been dreadful. We've got this joke, where we're having things decided by tribunals rather than football.
We've had the joy sucked out of the game with VAR.
We've had the international tournaments enlarged to a ridiculously bloated size.
FIFA and IFAB are absolute jokes. And I see infantino has been arrested now. Rotten to the core.
 
#43
FFP if applied correctly works, it's just when you've got inadequate organisations overseeing it it fails (see also Man City and UEFA). Let's not forget Wednesday weren't caught bacuse they sold their ground back to a dodgy owner, they failed because an accountant put it in the wrong tax year when doing the accounts. If they had a competent accountant none of this would have ever happened.
If you're saying it was an accounting error and not cheating then Wednesday will definitely appeal!
 
#45
All these FFP rules are beyond me I'm afraid.
All I want to do is watch the football.
Who goes up and down should be decided by how football teams perform on the pitch.
But instead it's decided by teams of accountants, lawyers and businessmen behind closed doors.
We are not too far away from individual results being decided weeks after the final whistle by courts set up to determine if it was a goal or not.
It feels like the game is being stolen from ordinary people by a wealthy elite who have three main priorities.
1 - Money
2 - Money
3 - Money
I can't really see any way to get it back.
Spot on
 
#46
As a club we benefitted greatly from the largess of our chairman. If FFP had been around in 1995 no juninho, no ravanelli, no cup finals. It is not in place to protect clubs from bankruptcy, it is in place to freeze the established order in their place. They need to get rid of it.

The governance of football over the last few years has just been dreadful. We've got this joke, where we're having things decided by tribunals rather than football.
We've had the joy sucked out of the game with VAR.
We've had the international tournaments enlarged to a ridiculously bloated size.
FIFA and IFAB are absolute jokes. And I see infantino has been arrested now. Rotten to the core.
VAR and the increase in international competitions is nothing to do with FFP.

If FFP is applied properly it stops clubs cheating their way to success ( ie Man City or others injecting cash from owners under the guise of sponsorship) and stops clubs operating beyond their means and plummeting towards administration. Without it the big clubs just get even bigger and the smaller clubs fall further and further behind. You can argue that is happening now but that is because the rules are not being enforced properly, clubs are not being audited properly and I agree FIFA/UEFA are rotten to the core.

But in essence and applied properly FFP rules are a good thing.

What happened 20+ years ago is irrelevant as the rules didn't exist then.
 
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#47
EFL Could end up in court with 2 teams, Wigan wanting their point deduction quashing or at least put in place next season as they have done for SW, and Charlton fighting for SW to get their deduction this season the same as Wigan .
I was going to say the same, it leaves them wide open to legal action that the EFL will drag into next season.

We all know there is no easy solution, but the EFL have made it harder on themselves. The decision on Sheff Wed and Derby should have been made months before anyone knew who would be relegated.

P!ss ups and breweries spring to mind
 

Duffman

Well-known member
#48
The EFL had the chance to send the clearest message possible about the implications of blatantly disrespecting FFP rules by applying the 12 point deduction immediately and relegating Sheff Wed. Clubs would have been far more wary of such behaviour in the future if they had sent the owls down but once again the punishment doesn’t fit the crime
 
#50
As a club we benefitted greatly from the largess of our chairman. If FFP had been around in 1995 no juninho, no ravanelli, no cup finals. It is not in place to protect clubs from bankruptcy, it is in place to freeze the established order in their place. They need to get rid of it.

The governance of football over the last few years has just been dreadful. We've got this joke, where we're having things decided by tribunals rather than football.
We've had the joy sucked out of the game with VAR.
We've had the international tournaments enlarged to a ridiculously bloated size.
FIFA and IFAB are absolute jokes. And I see infantino has been arrested now. Rotten to the core.
VAR the little I've seen of incidents, what I've read about is everything that's wrong in the game, yes someone pointed out when I brought this up before that it's OK but used incorrectly, for me it didn't need to be brought in, football is & always will be about instant emotions not scoring a goal & await the decision, that moment has then gone, VAR will make more mistakes than the average ref
The main agenda the football authorities need to focus on is continued blatent cheating, nothing more, but that could result in some big named players missing from the 1st team for quite a few games & as some of the teams are bigger than the governing body it won't happen
So the badness that runs through football will go unpunished
 
#51
Without it the big clubs just get even bigger and the smaller clubs fall further and further behind
Isn't the exact opposite true? With it, the biggest clubs with the biggest fan bases, stadiums and sponsorship; deals can out spend any of the clubs below them. These 2nd tier clubs can't compete financially as they can't match the revenue streams of the elite clubs until they become one themselves.

FFP if applied correctly to the letter of the law means the biggest clubs in any given league generate more income every year and can outspend the chasing pack every year.

I'm pretty sure this is what Liverpool, Man U, Bayern, Juventus, Real and Barca etc. would actually want.

It simply maintains the status quo, and prevents any newcomer to the top table challenging them.

And it can never work in the Championship because it isn't applied in most cases, if you go up breaking FFP the EFL are powerless to to do anything to you. Additionally the relegated teams parachute payments mean those teams can blow anyone else out of the water financially for a couple of years.

The whole thing is an unfair, unenforceable mess.

It should just be dropped with very strict controls on what the money spent is secured against brought in. If you want to spend £500 million on a team and you have the money then so be it. Gibbo did it with us on a much smaller scale in the nineties and we weren't up in arms.

As long as the club is protected as part of the local community and the losses are wholly absorbed by the owner, he's taking a risk with his money and his assets not the clubs then I'm fine with it.
 
#52
Isn't the exact opposite true? With it, the biggest clubs with the biggest fan bases, stadiums and sponsorship; deals can out spend any of the clubs below them. These 2nd tier clubs can't compete financially as they can't match the revenue streams of the elite clubs until they become one themselves.

FFP if applied correctly to the letter of the law means the biggest clubs in any given league generate more income every year and can outspend the chasing pack every year.

I'm pretty sure this is what Liverpool, Man U, Bayern, Juventus, Real and Barca etc. would actually want.

It simply maintains the status quo, and prevents any newcomer to the top table challenging them.

And it can never work in the Championship because it isn't applied in most cases, if you go up breaking FFP the EFL are powerless to to do anything to you. Additionally the relegated teams parachute payments mean those teams can blow anyone else out of the water financially for a couple of years.

The whole thing is an unfair, unenforceable mess.

It should just be dropped with very strict controls on what the money spent is secured against brought in. If you want to spend £500 million on a team and you have the money then so be it. Gibbo did it with us on a much smaller scale in the nineties and we weren't up in arms.

As long as the club is protected as part of the local community and the losses are wholly absorbed by the owner, he's taking a risk with his money and his assets not the clubs then I'm fine with it.
Yes for me police something they can control, the powers to be should be clamping down on the ugly thing in football, cheating, that will hit all teams equally, well it should do
 

Trug

Well-known member
#53
It seems that Charlton could well be taking the EFL to court according to this article.
www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/charlton-legal-action-efl-wednesday-22451499
I think the adage is- the bigger you are, the more you get away with. One of the comments to this article cites the time when Man utd got a fine and Peterborough were relegated, both for the same thing. I remember at the time how people reacted to this unfairness- nothing has changed.
 
#54
Weren’t Wednesday also being sponsored by shell companies set up by the owner, such as a taxi company with no taxis or is that just a rumour?

If true they should be getting 12 point deductions for EACH contravention of the rules.
I believe he paid for a license to operate a taxi firm, and never set it up. So
As a club we benefitted greatly from the largess of our chairman. If FFP had been around in 1995 no juninho, no ravanelli, no cup finals. It is not in place to protect clubs from bankruptcy, it is in place to freeze the established order in their place. They need to get rid of it.
I'm not entirely against this. It is proving very difficult to govern, and certainly in europe FFP is to stop 'upstarts' from stopping the gravy train. I think there is an element of this in the championship with the bigger clubs wanting to stop unfashionables from getting promoted.
 
#58
Isn't the exact opposite true? With it, the biggest clubs with the biggest fan bases, stadiums and sponsorship; deals can out spend any of the clubs below them. These 2nd tier clubs can't compete financially as they can't match the revenue streams of the elite clubs until they become one themselves.

FFP if applied correctly to the letter of the law means the biggest clubs in any given league generate more income every year and can outspend the chasing pack every year.

I'm pretty sure this is what Liverpool, Man U, Bayern, Juventus, Real and Barca etc. would actually want.

It simply maintains the status quo, and prevents any newcomer to the top table challenging them.

And it can never work in the Championship because it isn't applied in most cases, if you go up breaking FFP the EFL are powerless to to do anything to you. Additionally the relegated teams parachute payments mean those teams can blow anyone else out of the water financially for a couple of years.

The whole thing is an unfair, unenforceable mess.

It should just be dropped with very strict controls on what the money spent is secured against brought in. If you want to spend £500 million on a team and you have the money then so be it. Gibbo did it with us on a much smaller scale in the nineties and we weren't up in arms.

As long as the club is protected as part of the local community and the losses are wholly absorbed by the owner, he's taking a risk with his money and his assets not the clubs then I'm fine with it.
Clubs can only "lose " the same amount each though so its a level playing field. The so called big clubs generate the bulk of their income via Champions League qualification, when they don't qualify as Arsenal have found they're in the same boat as everyone else.

It's a moot point though how it all works. For me you cannot just have a free for all as the Qatari etc own clubs will just blow everyone else out of the water. There has to be some kind of control.
 
#59
A league appropriate salary cap would be far easier to police alongside a limit on player numbers.
A sensible salary cap would mean that clubs wouldn't be in the situation of paying out 50%+ of their income in wages which in a bad season can not only see relegation, but also place great strain on their viability for a number of seasons. We ourselves have seen how big, underperforming earners can weigh you down for season after season.
Having huge squads means a lot of young lads get loaned out and human nature dictates that being a loanee might not be the best avenue for applying yourself. Yes, some loanees find a home away from their parent clubs, but most are just nomadic. Reduced squad sizes might actually open up chances for young lads to fulfil their promise on the pitch and not just as comments in the media.
 
#60
Isn't the exact opposite true? With it, the biggest clubs with the biggest fan bases, stadiums and sponsorship; deals can out spend any of the clubs below them. These 2nd tier clubs can't compete financially as they can't match the revenue streams of the elite clubs until they become one themselves.

You only have to look at Man U, they have had a disastrous time in the transfer market, but to a degree have a protected revenue stream. Teams that don’t have that massive income can’t use investment to try and catch up. As a result United have been allowed to consolidate and repair the squad. If a team like Leicester for example struggle in the transfer market and recruit poorly, it will be very difficult for them to recover and they bomb out of the league - see Bournemouth.

It’s stacked against smaller clubs and fundamentally it’s unfair and in business would be a monopoly.
FFP if applied correctly to the letter of the law means the biggest clubs in any given league generate more income every year and can outspend the chasing pack every year.

I'm pretty sure this is what Liverpool, Man U, Bayern, Juventus, Real and Barca etc. would actually want.

It simply maintains the status quo, and prevents any newcomer to the top table challenging them.

And it can never work in the Championship because it isn't applied in most cases, if you go up breaking FFP the EFL are powerless to to do anything to you. Additionally the relegated teams parachute payments mean those teams can blow anyone else out of the water financially for a couple of years.

The whole thing is an unfair, unenforceable mess.

It should just be dropped with very strict controls on what the money spent is secured against brought in. If you want to spend £500 million on a team and you have the money then so be it. Gibbo did it with us on a much smaller scale in the nineties and we weren't up in arms.

As long as the club is protected as part of the local community and the losses are wholly absorbed by the owner, he's taking a risk with his money and his assets not the clubs then I'm fine with it.
 
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