Shamima Begum
- Thread starter Priv
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Chris_Boro
Well-known member
Being groomed is very much a mitigating factor however.
parmoboy
Well-known member
To be fair, I think there's a difference between involving yourself in petty crime etc, compared to someone signing up to a well known terrorist organisation, with the intention (at the least) of championing a bunch of murderers.
I was no angel myself at that age and did things which I regret but I still knew that murdering, torturing innocents was wrong, and never would have even considered associating myself with such people.
h_m_boro
Well-known member
No that's why I said I'm not fully getting it. It's very complex and far too simplistic to nail this episode down to a black/white scenario. That why my comments are very much "
" as I don't know enough of the whole case.Flipping it, if a 15 yr old stabs another teenager to death, should they be allowed to walk free as they didn't know what they were getting into? No. But did they realise the full life changing implications of their actions - only they know this.
The big thing for me is what should her punishment be - she's had her citizenship taken off her which I feel is wrong and like I said sets a very, very dangerous precedent.
wilkos_perm
Well-known member
Yep there should've been a fair assessment of her danger to society (which i suspect is non-existent), and punishment (or not) defined and applied in this country.No that's why I said I'm not fully getting it. It's very complex and far too simplistic to nail this episode down to a black/white scenario. That why my comments are very much "
Flipping it, if a 15 yr old stabs another teenager to death, should they be allowed to walk free as they didn't know what they were getting into? No. But did they realise the full life changing implications of their actions - only they know this.
The big thing for me is what should her punishment be - she's had her citizenship taken off her which I feel is wrong and like I said sets a very, very dangerous precedent.
Steer
Well-known member
Dig up the threads about her a few years ago, and there are lots of strong feelings against her and anyone else who left the country to join ISIS. This for good reason, and we should not lose sight of the fact that these were vile murderers that she joined. However she was a child and a victim too, so I am surprised at this outcome.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
Agree with the grooming argument but also think that now, as a 20-something, she could pose a significant risk if just allowed back into society.
The fact she often says in interviews “I don’t want to talk about that” doesn’t help her either as it suggests she is still concealing some aspects of her story/motivation.
I don’t really know what the answer is but, yeah, stripping her of citizenship is a very dangerous precedent. There are people in this country who’ve *directly* committed way worse crimes (as adults), should we strip them of theirs too? We will need another island colony to send them all to if that’s the case.
The fact she often says in interviews “I don’t want to talk about that” doesn’t help her either as it suggests she is still concealing some aspects of her story/motivation.
I don’t really know what the answer is but, yeah, stripping her of citizenship is a very dangerous precedent. There are people in this country who’ve *directly* committed way worse crimes (as adults), should we strip them of theirs too? We will need another island colony to send them all to if that’s the case.
wilkos_perm
Well-known member
but these groups convince kids that they're fighting a noble fight and promise them the world in return for signing up. It's brainwashing and grooming, that's how it works. Of course an adult taking a bacjwards step can see it's wrong.
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h_m_boro
Well-known member
that is pretty much it. She will be monitored to the point of anything she does, the authorities will know.......so forming a terror cell or running away again will be nigh on impossible. Especially if she was banged up for a long time.mmmmm what? No idea what point you're trying to make.
A link with a Labour voting age proposal is tenuous at best.
I guess at 15 you were sufficently mature and wordly wise to be avoid being persuaded to do something wrong, clearly she wasn't.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
I agree it’s not as simple as that. There will be some folk who hated her from day one though largely because she wore a hijab, but it’s not the whole picture.
Neither did she so why say it?
atypical_boro
Well-known member
Only a ton? It’s nearly at 50 after only half an hour.
She didn't stab anyone. Another tenous argument to try and smear someone who was a vulnerable girl.
parmoboy
Well-known member
She’s a security risk, the security services have weighed in with evidence to suggest this.
Judges have stated she isn’t going to come back. I trust their decision on this one to be fair.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
We don’t actually *know* what she did though. She may have done almost nothing but observe, but she may also have done some pretty bad stuff too.
If she came back and ever decided to have a kid there’d be a very big social services bill!
So just stop her coming back then.
Typical Tory excuse to shut the door to those being the persecuted. Lock the doors.
We used to be better than this.
newyddion
Well-known member
She was a child. That is what the laws says. What has Labour got to do with it?