Scotland Wales and even NI all have a clear plan for the holiday period
- Thread starter Jedi boro
- Start date
Jedi boro
Well-known member
Australia
Live breaking news: 2005 new COVID-19 cases in Victoria, 298 in hospital, 10 deaths; NSW cases climb to 5715, 347 in hospital, one death as state brings back check-ins
https://www.9news.com.au/national/a...ng-waits/5fa68eca-f623-40ec-940d-649002bc8528
Live breaking news: 2005 new COVID-19 cases in Victoria, 298 in hospital, 10 deaths; NSW cases climb to 5715, 347 in hospital, one death as state brings back check-ins
https://www.9news.com.au/national/a...ng-waits/5fa68eca-f623-40ec-940d-649002bc8528
Jedi boro
Well-known member
Germany
COVID: Omicron could be Germany's dominant variant 'in 3 weeks'
The chief of Germany's top public health body has said a fifth wave of infections could overwhelm the health care system. He warned Germans not to let Christmas be the "spark that lights the omicron fire."
p.dw.com
COVID: Omicron could be Germany's dominant variant 'in 3 weeks'
The chief of Germany's top public health body has said a fifth wave of infections could overwhelm the health care system. He warned Germans not to let Christmas be the "spark that lights the omicron fire."
COVID: Omicron could be Germany's dominant variant 'in 3 weeks' | DW | 22.12.2021
The chief of Germany's top public health body has said a fifth wave of infections could overwhelm the health care system. He warned Germans not to let Christmas be the "spark that lights the omicron fire."
Jedi boro
Well-known member
Booster campaigns won't end the pandemic, WHO chief warns wealthy nations
The World Health Organization chief warned Wednesday that the rush in wealthy countries to roll out additional Covid-19 vaccine doses was deepening the global inequity in access to jabs and thereby prolonging…
Jedi boro
Well-known member
I want leadership mate
Warwickboro
Well-known member
I can't stand the government, but I disagree that restrictions are the way to go, we've been here before and extended 3 previous waves already, we have delivered 130 million jabs now, and we are already of all other European countries with the booster rollout. Time to move on, we can't keep doing this, it appears that people seem to think leadership = restrictions, leadership can also be saying, "we will not be imposing restrictions, we are going with vaccines and masks" granted Boris isn't even doing that, but some here seem obsessed with the only form of leadership worthwhile is a sturgeon or drakeford constant public health emergency, this is a vastly different situation to this time last year and does not require a panic button. It does however require a far better leadership and government than this one.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
There seems to be a lot of unknowns with reference to the severity of the virus. To me it seems sensible to be flexible until more is known.
Ref Scotland and Wales - how many businesses will never recover from losing Xmas and the New Year. Losing your business and livilihood can have dire health risks too.
JM14
Well-known member
Everyone offered two vaccines, everyone who is vulnerable offered 3. What more can we do at this stage? Destroy the economy every time a new variant comes along?
I completely understood restrictions/lockdown when no one had any immunity or vaccinations, without lockdown I expect things would have got very bad, but they have a terrible impact on almost every aspect of society and shouldn’t even be considered especially with such an effective vaccine rollout
I am no fan of the government and have never voted Conservative but we'd be in a similar state with the epidemic but in far deeper dystopian restrictions if we had Labour in charge (look at the state of Wales). Thank goodness for the Conservative backbenchers (not a sentence I thought I'd be writing a couple of years ago).
Much of the world panicked and ignored the standard pandemic response and WHO guidelines from as recently as 2019. It was what Donald Henderson was warning of back in the mid 2000's.
It is always difficult comparing countries due to differing populations, demographics etc. but lets take a look at two european countries which have attracted attention for their differing responses. Sweden vs Germany.
Sweden has had public health measures in place (despite some trying to portray it as completely 'normal' and 'unrestricted throughout') but those measures were the standard measures and consistent and set in place so the population would be on board for a fairly considerable length of time. Once the age-stratified mortality was apparent they switched universities to online learning but kept the schools for younger children open throughout (UK closing them was a big mistake). They encouraged 'work from home where possible', closed down large events (clubs etc), but kept shops, gyms, bars (with some capacity limits and table service) largely etc. open throughout. Worth remembering Sweden was criticised in many quarters for their cavalier response. I initially watched in horror expecting them to have the worst outcomes as that was what the modeling suggested would happen. That was until I did some basic reading about the spread of respiratory virus' and realised much of the modeling was total nonsense.
Germany has often been praised for its response. It has had mandatory masks, sometimes of a certain grade in most public places (Sweden hasn't), is still playing some sports behind closed doors, has again shut shops, bars, and christmas markets, and has 'vaccine passports' (right up there with the most stupid public health measures imaginable). They also have had police walking round with 'rulers' to check people are stood 1.5 M apart (no, that is not a joke). Insanity.
How have they actually fared...... Largely similar in terms of the numbers of deaths (which, of course, is not the only metric when considering how well a country has responded). Sweden had more deaths in the early part of 2020, things were quiet in summer (as it is a coronavirus and seasonal, despite what some STILL try to suggest), and the winter of 2020 was similar despite the differing public health measures. Currently Sweden is flat in terms of deaths and Germany has more deaths atm. Sweden is much more open as a society than Germany and has been throughout.
There is yet again a clamour for government to 'do something', to 'have a plan'. We have vaccines, we have given much of the adult population 2 doses, the most vulnerable 3. What more do people want? Why do people want to introduce measures (like Wales and Scotland) such as 'rule of 6', mask mandates, vaccine passports etc. which just don't work?
People seem astounded that we have rising cases in December. It is a coronavirus. They were rising at this time last year and will likely rise again (whatever variant is around) at the same time next year. See below for the striking differences in seasonality/'regionality' between the western european nations and some of the eastern euro nations...... (note the very similar pattern for IRE vs UK since summer, again, despite the difference in NPIs)......
The next thing the country has to do is wean itself off the mad level of testing and, over time, remove the isolation/quarantine rules (some should never ever have been in place). And it must not, absolutely not, normalise mass testing of the population for respiratory virus'. I cannot imagine the levels of hysteria that could be generated if we tested for seasonal flu.
magic
Well-known member
Very well said Sir.Be prepared for a pile on especially for having the bare faced audacity to criticise the Labour Party
Warwickboro
Well-known member
100% we now have an obsession with testing. We test kids without symptoms which seems crazy, and in turn we obsess over cases bow.
Be prepared for a pile on especially for having the bare faced audacity to criticise the Labour Party
Randy
Well-known member
Unfortunately too many.
That's all well and good, but Zorro wants a plan.
BoroFur
Well-known member
How can the Labour Party be criticised for anything Covid-19 related, particularly in England.
Be prepared for a pile on especially for having the bare faced audacity to criticise the Labour Party
It seems some folk are parroting the Tory mantra 'what if we had Corbyn and Abbott' etc.
Restrictions should purely be about keeping the nhs under control. A fortnight ago cases were doubling and the NHS would be overwhelmed by Christmas. It’s now the 23rd and admissions are roughly the same as what they were. We know there is a lag but we would expect to see an upturn given the millions of people with omicron now.
Locking down for the “what if” situation is not exactly feasible in real life given the other issues out there regarding people’s jobs, mental health, treatment for other illnesses which are just constantly getting kicked into the long grass.
Locking down for the “what if” situation is not exactly feasible in real life given the other issues out there regarding people’s jobs, mental health, treatment for other illnesses which are just constantly getting kicked into the long grass.
motownjunk
Well-known member
Its probably too late to do anything that would make a difference now anyway in England, but it looks like the other home nations covid cases are not rising anywhere near as fast as in England. We won't know if England has done the right thing and Wales Scotland and Northern Island have over reacted til we have enough proper data is in which we will have around new year and beyond.
If hospitalisations isn't the problem because the virus isn't as severe (or vaccines are doing their job) then the problem will be things being shut because staff are at home isolating that becomes the biggest issue. How do we fix that problem? Either restrict/lockdown or admit it doesn't need to be a problem because the problem is being caused by an over-reaction.
There will come a time, and it might even be now with Omicron if it is less severe than we even think, that a positive test isn't a reason to stay at home for a week, where having covid doesn't force you into isolation in the same way having a cold doesn't. I have had a few friends have covid in the last couple of weeks and they have all reported either no symptoms or felt a bit rubbish for a day or two max. That means the vaccines are doing their job and the risk of catching it isn't something we have to worry about, like we don't with colds or flu.
If that is the case, and it will be difficult for people to change their mindset, then we can finally get back to actual normality. If you feel ill, have a day or 2 off work, not 10 without any symptoms. It might not be the case just yet but it will be, even has to be, at some point because we can't forever be in a cycle of lockdowns. Lockdowns delay and they worked really well when we had something to delay for in the vaccine but they are not good for us mentally or economically.
There will come a time, and it might even be now with Omicron if it is less severe than we even think, that a positive test isn't a reason to stay at home for a week, where having covid doesn't force you into isolation in the same way having a cold doesn't. I have had a few friends have covid in the last couple of weeks and they have all reported either no symptoms or felt a bit rubbish for a day or two max. That means the vaccines are doing their job and the risk of catching it isn't something we have to worry about, like we don't with colds or flu.
If that is the case, and it will be difficult for people to change their mindset, then we can finally get back to actual normality. If you feel ill, have a day or 2 off work, not 10 without any symptoms. It might not be the case just yet but it will be, even has to be, at some point because we can't forever be in a cycle of lockdowns. Lockdowns delay and they worked really well when we had something to delay for in the vaccine but they are not good for us mentally or economically.