Scotland Wales and even NI all have a clear plan for the holiday period

I have to say I find it rather incongruous to see a party that decimated public services, to then be concerned about those public services being overwhelmed. I guess a disease that kills older people has focused the minds of their voters.
 
Th
magic said:
Exactly Warwick, the people who shout the loudest for continuous lockdowns have lived their whole lives in relative freedom and received all the advantages that come with this. Yet they don't seem to give a second's thought about ruining our children's education and the best years of their lives.
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Yes thats it. I wish this wasn't happening at all. At least 4 times since this started, my daughter has been shouted at (outside) for being to close to someone, she was only 3 on one occasion! I just feel that when we look back, well feel ashamed that we vilified kids for being in a park when it was illegal, or people walking with a coffee. This all started when the odious priti Patel encouraged the public to snitch on each other, I read an article a couple of years ago from my local paper where the police were being praised for fining 2 people sat in their own car, yes their own car, watching trains. I still can't believe that this was illegal, and it certainly didn't put anyone in any danger. My fear is what seems like one small restriction soon becomes much heavier
 
if we let it run wild and cases continue to rise we will lose thousands of people from our main infrastructure.

How does anyone propose to manage this if we just let it run through the populace?

My nephews school has been shut for 2 weeks prior to Christmas as there are not enough staff due to an outbreak. If cases rise then this will be across the board.

Its not as simple as it kills less people so let's get on with it.
 
Cambsred said:
if we let it run wild and cases continue to rise we will lose thousands of people from our main infrastructure.

How does anyone propose to manage this if we just let it run through the populace?

My nephews school has been shut for 2 weeks prior to Christmas as there are not enough staff due to an outbreak. If cases rise then this will be across the board.

Its not as simple as it kills less people so let's get on with it.
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This is very hard I know, but this whole thing has been rinse and repeat for 2 years. We have already been informed that due to an extremely high R. The peak of this will arrive sharply and likely fade sharply. Restrictions don't stop anything, they flatten the curve and extend the life cycle of the wave to allow time for more vaccines (which we have delivered nearly 3 times over now). Now I know people disagree, but this time, based on 130 million jabs, 52% rate of boosters, and what appears to be a milder variant, I'm not convinced we should be extending the wave of infections until the summer as we have previously and causing all the damage that restrictions bring such as 5.1% inflation, quantities easing, mental health crisis, and most importantly the unknown damage to our future generations. This is controversial, I hate Boris, I can't bare the tories, I wish covid was over and omicron didn't exist, and if I'm wrong about this then fine, ill live with the restrictions again. But I honestly feel like we should mask up, vaccinate, and just carry on with life. Please note (I too want Boris out) i do believe in vaccines, I just "no longer" belive non pharmaceutical interventions are the best way forward.
 
Warwickboro said:
This is very hard I know, but this whole thing has been rinse and repeat for 2 years. We have already been informed that due to an extremely high R. The peak of this will arrive sharply and likely fade sharply. Restrictions don't stop anything, they flatten the curve and extend the life cycle of the wave to allow time for more vaccines (which we have delivered nearly 3 times over now). Now I know people disagree, but this time, based on 130 million jabs, 52% rate of boosters, and what appears to be a milder variant, I'm not convinced we should be extending the wave of infections until the summer as we have previously and causing all the damage that restrictions bring such as 5.1% inflation, quantities easing, mental health crisis, and most importantly the unknown damage to our future generations. This is controversial, I hate Boris, I can't bare the tories, I wish covid was over and omicron didn't exist, and if I'm wrong about this then fine, ill live with the restrictions again. But I honestly feel like we should mask up, vaccinate, and just carry on with life. Please note (I too want Boris out) i do believe in vaccines, I just "no longer" belive non pharmaceutical interventions are the best way forward.
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I entirely agree that this seems like the least impactive option. Once you scratch the surface though the reality is carnage.

Virus numbers increase, teachers get sick, schools close haphazardly, education is unpredictable, ability to work is unpredictable...

Health service staff go sick, ability to provide basic services varies, wards unable to be staffed, care has to be stopped...

Supermarkets staff go sick, staff can't provide service, shops can't manage incoming stock...

Hospitity staff get sick, unable to provide capacity so pubs/ bars/ resteraunts have to shut/ provide reduced services.

the virus increasingly significantly in the community in the short term crashes the community. Restrictions slow it down so the infrastructure can manage.

Its ****, its impacting my life, my children and my career significantly. But you can't close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears and pretend if we don't restrict stuff it won't impact anyone but the old and most vulnerable.
 
DrummerMan said:
Yeah till everyone mixes for Christmas - no win situation
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Probably, though it's a no win situation that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will also be going through, despite their devolved governments not having the "excuse" of backbench rebellions and weeks of their own hypocrisy being plastered across the papers.
 
Cambsred said:
I entirely agree that this seems like the least impactive option. Once you scratch the surface though the reality is carnage.

Virus numbers increase, teachers get sick, schools close haphazardly, education is unpredictable, ability to work is unpredictable...

Health service staff go sick, ability to provide basic services varies, wards unable to be staffed, care has to be stopped...

Supermarkets staff go sick, staff can't provide service, shops can't manage incoming stock...

Hospitity staff get sick, unable to provide capacity so pubs/ bars/ resteraunts have to shut/ provide reduced services.

the virus increasingly significantly in the community in the short term crashes the community. Restrictions slow it down so the infrastructure can manage.

Its ****, its impacting my life, my children and my career significantly. But you can't close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears and pretend if we don't restrict stuff it won't impact anyone but the old and most vulnerable.
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Some good points in there i agree with many, again, controversially, I'm not sure that testing children (who are symptom free) is necessarily right. Based on the very mild Impact this has on them, my reasons for thinking as I do are simply that this will be with us forever, and will mutate many more times. This current routine of summers of freedom and winters of restrictions is not sustainable, a different approach may be needed, and one that perhaps may seem unpopular. We are wasting billions on testing kits for kids when we can't afford to provide the same kids with hot meals out of term time!
 
most mainland european countries have taken extra steps too, i'd rather be a tad too cautious than gamble like the Tories are doing because that's what this is - a gamble (an accumulator really) that 1. infections will decrease, 2. the infections won't lead to hospitalisations, and 3. the infections won't lead to NHS staff absences
 
how can we be in the situation where restrictions are still considered. Not serious enough to ruin Christmas when infections are approaching their peak, but restrictions talked about being needed once Christmas is over and we’re likely past the peak. Further restrictions in a few weeks will make no difference at all
 
So you'd rather put thousands of people on the dole and ruin the mental health of the nation on the off chance that one of SAGE's doom mongering predictions actually materialises. I would want all the actual facts to hand before making such a momentous decision.
 
kuepper said:
most mainland european countries have taken extra steps too, i'd rather be a tad too cautious than gamble like the Tories are doing because that's what this is - a gamble (an accumulator really) that 1. infections will decrease, 2. the infections won't lead to hospitalisations, and 3. the infections won't lead to NHS staff absences
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Mainland Europe is way behind the UK with their booster program. Also, why are we so quick to take gambles with peoples futures and their mental health?
 
Warwickboro said:
Well, I get that the daily case rate is frightening, but its looking positive in terms of severity. I'd prefer some caution on peoples livelihoods and mental health for a change. I can't stand Boris, but Drakefords announcement on fining people for going into the office is scary, I'm very glad he isn't running this country, I'm really stuck as to who I would want, but it certainly wouldn't be anyone I see in main stream politics at the moment.
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In fairness Warwick I think the principle of fining people for making unnecessary journeys during a very short period of time isn't that horrific. Drakeford is just saying if you can work from home then you should but I don't think the message has been delivered as well as it could have been.
 
magic said:
So you'd rather put thousands of people on the dole and ruin the mental health of the nation on the off chance that one of SAGE's doom mongering predictions actually materialises. I would want all the actual facts to hand before making such a momentous decision.
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I can't recall anyone on any post, calling for thousands of people to be put on the dole and the mental health of the nation to be ruined or for there to be a continuous lockdown. As I've said on another post, there are some positive things being reported, but the big worry seems to be the sheer number of new infections. I also remember one of SAGE's very early predictions being that we would do well to keep deaths below 20,000. Given where we are now that hardly seems a doom mongering prediction.
 
We could host the biggest covid party on the planet. Lockdown the vulnerable for 4 weeks and then get it out the way.

Job done and nobody has to miss school, services will be fine and we all live happily ever after.
 
BoroFur said:
In fairness Warwick I think the principle of fining people for making unnecessary journeys during a very short period of time isn't that horrific. Drakeford is just saying if you can work from home then you should but I don't think the message has been delivered as well as it could have been.
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Yes, he's certainly, a clearer communicator. The principal of it is wrong for me. The length of the restriction is one thing, but for me its a frightening level of restriction that I would expect to see from a future dictator, I don't think.he is one by any means, but he has seriously missed judged that. What is the next short term measure that he will fine people for?
 
Warwickboro said:
Yes, he's certainly, a clearer communicator. The principal of it is wrong for me. The length of the restriction is one thing, but for me its a frightening level of restriction that I would expect to see from a future dictator, I don't think.he is one by any means, but he has seriously missed judged that. What is the next short term measure that he will fine people for?
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No worries fella I just remember in the very early days of the pandemic going to work on the A19 without a single other vehicle in sight. I had to go into work but my employer had given me a letter to give to the Police in case I was stopped. The letter said I worked in a key industry (chemicals) therefore I was given a concession to travel.

My personal opinion is that we are seeing a very small impact on our civil liberties and I can't for the life of me see those restrictions getting any worse.
 
BoroFur said:
No worries fella I just remember in the very early days of the pandemic going to work on the A19 without a single other vehicle in sight. I had to go into work but my employer had given me a letter to give to the Police in case I was stopped. The letter said I worked in a key industry (chemicals) therefore I was given a concession to travel.

My personal opinion is that we are seeing a very small impact on our civil liberties and I can't for the life of me see those restrictions getting any worse.
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This may be right, if its short term then it could be little harm done. Experience tells.me were usually 2 weeks away from the next one but if the above happens it ain't too bad
 
magic said:
Yes they've shut the football grounds and ruined hospitality over Christmas putting thousands of people out of work for a variant that the latest studies show is two thirds less harmful than whatever the last one was. Is that what you want to happen in this country??
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I'm beginning to think some people do want to see the country burn in protest of the current government.
 
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