Scientoligists

Liamo said:
As I said, you can question the rational basis of most religions but none of them remotely compare to the craziness (or the underlying malign and financially exploitative nature) of Scientology.
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People should believe in whatever they believe in but when that belief is used to control or abuse others it should be called out
 
Had this conversation on here before. I've known several Jehovah's Witnesses over the years, every one of whom have suffered mental health issues due to the controlling (and I'm being moderate here) nature of what they had experienced/grown up with. One of them had a complete mental breakdown after being 'defellowshipped' upon losing the faith and leaving. He was never the same afterwards and died in very unhappy circumstances.

I know we have some JWs on here and I have no problem with them or their beliefs, but I strongly dislike what that organisation does to those who 'stray'.
 
There was an inquiry commissioned by the Australian government into Scientology in 1964, called the Anderson Inquiry.

I think its conclusions accurately encapsulate the nature of this quasi-religious cult. As it states:

the evidence has shown its theories to be fantastic and impossible, its principles perverted and ill-founded, and its techniques debased and harmful. [...] While making an appeal to the public as a worthy system whereby ability, intelligence and personality may be improved, it employs techniques which further its real purpose of securing domination over and mental enslavement of its adherents. It involves the administration by persons without any training in medicine or psychology of quasi-psychological treatment, which is harmful medically, morally and socially.
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Wiseman_Vaughn said:
I knew a couple of friends that fell in love with Muslim girls and HAD to convert to Islam to continue. They both had to take symbolic Muslim names…. One of them took Muhammad Ali 😂
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That's nothing new though and has been common practice across many religions for centuries.

Me, I'm atheist. Used to be quite militantly so, but have mellowed with age and now just think life is more about what you do and who you help rather than which sky fairy you believe in. I know people of faith who do great work in the community, and conversely also know atheists who wouldn't lift a hand to help a starving man.
 
HarryVegas said:
That's nothing new though and has been common practice across many religions for centuries.

Me, I'm atheist. Used to be quite militantly so, but have mellowed with age and now just think life is more about what you do and who you help rather than which sky fairy you believe in. I know people of faith who do great work in the community, and conversely also know atheists who wouldn't lift a hand to help a starving man.
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I hear you! Live and let live. I have good friends and colleagues from all religions
 
Liamo said:
As I said, you can question the rational basis of most religions but none of them remotely compare to the craziness (or the underlying malign and financially exploitative nature) of Scientology.
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It's just new. I am sure Jesus was thought of the same 20 years after his death.

As I said I am an active Catholic but that's only because I was born into it. I do believe in a devine being.
 
Same_as_before said:
It's just new. I am sure Jesus was thought of the same 20 years after his death.

As I said I am an active Catholic but that's only because I was born into it. I do believe in a devine being.
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No it's not "just new." I'm not sure you're really grasping the fundamental and massively qualitative differences between Scientology and actual religions.

As the Anderson Inquiry I quoted above says, it is "perverted", "ill-founded", "debased" and "harmful."

And remember, those are not my words, those are the words of an impartial, government-run inquiry.

Most other religions were formed, based on a genuine belief that there is a spiritual dimension to the universe and that humans should try to understand that spirituality and somehow align themselves to it.

Scientology on that other hand was not formed that way.

When L. Ron Hubbard founded it, he didn't actually believe that humans are just vessels for 75 million year old space aliens brought here by the Galactic Dictator Xenu aboard DC-8-like planes and then killed by hydrogen bombs - he knew it was just a ridiculous science fiction story that he'd made up.

And I'm pretty sure that the people at the top of Scientology, like Tom Cruise don't really believe it either - they're not that stupid

The whole thing was nothing more than a deliberate and outright scam, designed and intended from the very outset as a way to make money for those at the top, and has continued that way ever since.

It really, really isn't a religion, it's just a massive ponzi scheme dressed up in the trappings of religiosity.
 
Liamo said:
No it's not "just new." I'm not sure you're really grasping the fundamental and massively qualitative differences between Scientology and actual religions.

As the Anderson Inquiry I quoted above says, it is "perverted", "ill-founded", "debased" and "harmful."

And remember, those are not my words, those are the words of an impartial, government-run inquiry.

Most other religions were formed, based on a genuine belief that there is a spiritual dimension to the universe and that humans should try to understand that spirituality and somehow align themselves to it.

Scientology on that other hand was not formed that way.

When L. Ron Hubbard founded it, he didn't actually believe that humans are just vessels for 75 million year old space aliens brought here by the Galactic Dictator Xenu aboard DC-8-like planes and then killed by hydrogen bombs - he knew it was just a ridiculous science fiction story that he'd made up.

And I'm pretty sure that the people at the top of Scientology, like Tom Cruise don't really believe it either - they're not that stupid

The whole thing was nothing more than a deliberate and outright scam, designed and intended from the very outset as a way to make money for those at the top, and has continued that way ever since.

It really, really isn't a religion, it's just a massive ponzi scheme dressed up in the trappings of religiosity.
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If people want to believe we came from Pluto in a canoe it's nothing to do with me. Do I think Scientology is a decent religion, no, do I think it has a right to exist, yes.
 
Liamo said:
As I said, you can question the rational basis of most religions but none of them remotely compare to the craziness (or the underlying malign and financially exploitative nature) of Scientology.
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I liked what you said, it wasn’t a counter argument I was proposing. I just think as long as it keeps you sane it’s ok. Sanity being a moveable feast. What really bothers me is when people try and convert you :)
 
Brian Marwood said:
Yes, I've done that and it is a small sacrifice to be with the woman you love.
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I can’t get my head around how you can choose to change your fundamental beliefs because someone asks you to. Maybe it’s because I’m an atheist and it’s a bigger leap for me than for example converting from Christianity to Judaism, but even that seems odd to me. It seems like you would be choosing not to believe in Jesus as the son of God not based on any evidence or rational persuasion, but because someone else wants you to.
 
SilentProf said:
I can’t get my head around how you can choose to change your fundamental beliefs because someone asks you to. Maybe it’s because I’m an atheist and it’s a bigger leap for me than for example converting from Christianity to Judaism, but even that seems odd to me. It seems like you would be choosing not to believe in Jesus as the son of God not based on any evidence or rational persuasion, but because someone else wants you to.
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Depends if you actually believe or whether it’s just to allow a marriage to go ahead. I knew a few Brits that married local Muslim girls when I lived in Brunei, they converted for the legalities and follow the rules Muslims there are expected to, but didn’t necessarily become believers - not that they could publicly admit that tho.
 
Smoggle said:
Depends if you actually believe or whether it’s just to allow a marriage to go ahead. I knew a few Brits that married local Muslim girls when I lived in Brunei, they converted for the legalities and follow the rules Muslims there are expected to, but didn’t necessarily become believers - not that they could publicly admit that tho.
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I can understand that. It’s complicated when children become involved though and the other person in the relationship would need to be supportive of it.
 
Same_as_before said:
If people want to believe we came from Pluto in a canoe it's nothing to do with me. Do I think Scientology is a decent religion, no, do I think it has a right to exist, yes.
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The post I was replying to didn't say anything about whether it was a decent religion. It said (or implied) that the only reason Scientology was getting criticized was because it's new.

But that's not the reason.

Perhaps I'm not explaining it properly.

Most religions were originally founded, based on a deeply-held and genuine (if arguably, misguided) set of spiritual and philosophical beliefs.

Scientology was originally founded (and continues to function) as a deliberately fraudulent scheme designed purely and solely to separate large numbers of people from increasingly large amounts of money over time.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but as the Business Insider article below mentions, to reach the more advanced levels requires spending hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars. Even the auditing sessions that I mentioned before and that every Scientologist undergoes regularly, cost $800 an hour.

How Scientology costs members up to millions of dollars

Just watch (or read) any one of the many meticulously-researched investigative reports into what Scientology actually is and does and you will be left in no doubt as to its true nature.
 
Liamo said:
The post I was replying to didn't say anything about whether it was a decent religion. It said (or implied) that the only reason Scientology was getting criticized was because it's new.

But that's not the reason.

Perhaps I'm not explaining it properly.

Most religions were originally founded, based on a deeply-held and genuine (if arguably, misguided) set of spiritual and philosophical beliefs.

Scientology was originally founded (and continues to function) as a deliberately fraudulent scheme designed purely and solely to separate large numbers of people from increasingly large amounts of money over time.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but as the Business Insider article below mentions, to reach the more advanced levels requires spending hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars. Even the auditing sessions that I mentioned before and that every Scientologist undergoes regularly, cost $800 an hour.

How Scientology costs members up to millions of dollars

Just watch (or read) any one of the many meticulously-researched investigative reports into what Scientology actually is and does and you will be left in no doubt as to its true nature.
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I have and been appalled by them. I am sure it's money motivated, but if people choose to believe in it that's up to them.

I don't think you can ban it. Look in Afghanistan there is a sect murdering people.
 
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