Sao Paulo F1 Grand Prix Weekend

[BoroFur]

Just not true.

Mercedes or Red Bull: Which team have had the best car in 2021?

The battle between Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen is finely poised with six events to go. But which driver has benefitted from having the best car this year? RacingNews365.com looks into the situation.

racingnews365.com

It is in my opinion which to me is the only one that matters although I do respect yours.

I notice you have nothing to say on the rest of my post.

 

[BoroFur]

Karun explained the line he took which seems to have been overlooked by many.

Karun said this.
Martin said that.
Paul said this.
Johnny said that.

Karun has his opinion, doesn't mean to say it's right.

 

[JM14]

Just not true.

Mercedes or Red Bull: Which team have had the best car in 2021?

The battle between Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen is finely poised with six events to go. But which driver has benefitted from having the best car this year? RacingNews365.com looks into the situation.

racingnews365.com

That’s just not correct, it’s been significantly closer than that article suggests.

The two Austria races Red Bull won by over a full pit stop

In Monaco max was a full minute ahead of Hamilton

Mexico max won by a full pit stop

Red Bull were faster in Baku, Imola, France, Holland, USA and arguably Bahrain

The only tracks where Mercedes looked like they had a significantly faster car was Brazil, Turkey, Spain and Portugal

Max has also lead 2/3x more laps than Hamilton this season, that doesn’t exactly suggest merc have had the better car

 

[Randy]

Karun has his opinion, doesn't mean to say it's right.

I know that. Been reminded of that by many on here. I'm just more inclined to take note of the words of Harris, Karun, Brundle, etc who have actual racing experience than some on here who've maybes done an occasional track day or overtaken a Renault Clio on the A66.

 

[Jedi boro]

That’s just not correct, it’s been significantly closer than that article suggests.

The two Austria races Red Bull won by over a full pit stop

In Monaco max was a full minute ahead of Hamilton

Mexico max won by a full pit stop

Red Bull were faster in Baku, Imola, France, Holland, USA and arguably Bahrain

The only tracks where Mercedes looked like they had a significantly faster car was Brazil, Turkey, Spain and Portugal

Max has also lead 2/3x more laps than Hamilton this season, that doesn’t exactly suggest merc have had the better car

I’m not arguing you can make a case for either side as it’s very close to call

but to say that the red bull is clearly the best car is simply rubbish.

 

[BoroFur]

I know that. Been reminded of that by many on here. I'm just more inclined to take note of the words of Harris, Karun, Brundle, etc who have actual racing experience than some on here who've maybes done an occasional track day or overtaken a Renault Clio on the A66.

Sure but Brundle and Herbert called it on the day saying Verstappen was an extremely lucky boy. We can all be inclined to take note of ex drivers although I don't place any store in what Harris says. Ex F1 drivers have differing views on this so it's just a matter of who's opinion you trust the most.

 

[JM14]

I know that. Been reminded of that by many on here. I'm just more inclined to take note of the words of Harris, Karun, Brundle, etc who have actual racing experience than some on here who've maybes done an occasional track day or overtaken a Renault Clio on the A66.

By that logic what’s the point in us all discussing football on here when none of us have played at any sort of level, let’s just listen to the experts and leave it at that

 

[BoroFur]

I’m not arguing you can make a case for either side as it’s very close to call

but to say that the red bull is clearly the best car is simply rubbish.

Where has @JM14 said that Red Bull 'clearly is the best car' ?

And why do you always resort to labelling people's opinions as rubbish or untrue?

 

[Randy]

Sure but Brundle and Herbert called it on the day saying Verstappen was an extremely lucky boy. We can all be inclined to take note of ex drivers although I don't place any store in what Harris says. Ex F1 drivers have differing views on this so it's just a matter of who's opinion you trust the most.

Which is exactly what I've done. I haven't judged either way but if pushed I would put it down to two highly charged, highly motivated drivers racing for the biggest prize in motorsports racing on the edge.
Some on here want Max's head on a stake, others want Toto to shut his mouth. It's dragged on for too long now, best to refocus back on the remaining races. May the best man win.

 

[JM14]

I’m not arguing you can make a case for either side as it’s very close to call

but to say that the red bull is clearly the best car is simply rubbish.

You can, but Red Bull have definitely had the edge in more of the races this season, hence they’ve lead 2/3x more laps which that article you linked failed to mention

 

[RedAsABeetroot]

hard racing but fair racing, Verstappen seems unable to know when to draw the line.

Sadly I think a lot of this is fuelled by the Wolff vs Horner off track battle. The relative experience of the two drivers is problematic as one is not handling it very well.
I also wonder if the FIA/Liberty Media are desperate to go into the next phase of rules with an intense rivalry between 2 World Champions.

 

[SmallTown]

Where has @JM14 said that Red Bull 'clearly is the best car' ?

And why do you always resort to labelling people's opinions as rubbish or untrue?

It's what Zorro does on F1 threads though. I've said it many times. He such such an intense bias and hatred towards the British driver that it clouds his judgement. Sadly he can't discuss these things rationaly.

His almost bizarre meltdowns on this thread have been coming for a while.

 

[Alzi]

Sadly I think a lot of this is fuelled by the Wolff vs Horner off track battle. The relative experience of the two drivers is problematic as one is not handling it very well.
I also wonder if the FIA/Liberty Media are desperate to go into the next phase of rules with an intense rivalry between 2 World Champions.

Max has always driven like this, it's just more in the spotlight now as he's competing for the championship. There is a time and a place for aggressive driving, but he struggles with where the line is (may come with more experience) and the hypocrisy from Red Bull when someone like Hamilton is equally aggressive and there is an inevitable crash is laughable.

 

[BoroFur]

What's being overlooked here is the Black & White flag Verstappen was given after Hamilton's lap 59 overtake.

The Black & White flag is effectively a yellow card for driving standards/unsporting behaviour and was given to Verstappen because he was weaving down the straight.

Some observers, including Karun, are saying that the lap 48 turn 4 incident was only worthy of a warning i.e a Black & White flag.

If Verstappen had received a warning for lap 48 he wouldn't have received another warning for lap 59, he'd have faced action from the Stewards instead.

 

[Chris_Boro]

What's being overlooked here is the Black & White flag Verstappen was given after Hamilton's lap 59 overtake.

The Black & White flag is effectively a yellow card for driving standards/unsporting behaviour and was given to Verstappen because he was weaving down the straight.

Some observers, including Karun, are saying that the lap 48 turn 4 incident was only worthy of a warning i.e a Black & White flag.

If Verstappen had received a warning for lap 48 he wouldn't have received another warning for lap 59, he'd have faced action from the Stewards instead.

Yeah but he was polite and said hi.

 

[Muttley]

I fail to see the relevance of the line that Verstappen takes into turn 4. He can take what line he likes/is available to him. Once off the racing line he will/should know that adhesion is much reduced either with "marbles" or just lack of rubber on the track. That could excuse him running slightly wide perhaps even so wide that he left the circuit BUT he didn't just go slightly wide he was three car widths off the track. He's a professional racing driver not some numpty like me pushing the car to see what happens.

But to be honest it doesn't matter what Max did whether it was a mistake or deliberate, it is the lack of consistency that is puzzling. Why was there no investigation? If they had investigated and said "racing incident" then puzzling but the stewards are there to add a professional view on these things. But no, it was "one of those". Remember when Lewis was adjudged to be at fault for the Silverstone collision (in which he never left the track limits at all) he was penalised with a ten second penalty.

 

[Lefty]

I do enjoy reading these F1 threads.

Keep up the good work, lads

 

[Marvanelli]

I know that. Been reminded of that by many on here. I'm just more inclined to take note of the words of Harris, Karun, Brundle, etc who have actual racing experience than some on here who've maybes done an occasional track day or overtaken a Renault Clio on the A66.

Karun also thinks Max is one of the greatest drivers ever.....the same driver that has so far won 0 Championships.

I'd take his opinion with a pinch of salt.

 

[Subbuteo_171]

His excuse was rubbish. I braked late, there was lack of grip, tyres were worn. The only reason an accident was avoided is because one driver took evasive action to prevent it whilst the other couldn’t care less.

Grid penalty for Qatar is the right call.

 

[RedAsABeetroot]

The Black & White flag is effectively a yellow card for driving standards/unsporting behaviour and was given to Verstappen because he was weaving down the straight.

Imagine the outrage if Mazepin had done that while racing a competitor.