Rwanda plan unlawful!

Boroboyyo said:
I mean , some people really have their heads in the sand on this issue .

This might not actually go ahead , but it’s not just here that’s getting sick of this issue , it’s europe too. I mean the likes of Finland and Poland are intentionally building walls to stop the flow of migrants from Belarus and Russia . Both these countries are literally weaponising migrants because they know allowing them in is going to destabilise the countries they are going to even further .

If europe doesn’t start sending these people back or start working on something that stops them getting into Europe in the first place , europe is going to go a lot more right wing . I mean for **** sake afd is doing quite well in Germany . The national front secured over 40% of the vote in the 2nd round of French elections too.Some on here will then wonder why the uk and continent is getting more right wing .
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Finland and Poland wanting to limit migrations from aggressive states seems sensible given the situation in Ukraine and their relative shared geography to it. It is hardly making a case for your argument. Look at the number of Ukrainian migrants/refugees they are taking in ... literally millions!

As was said earlier on this thread we are 16th on the list for number of refugee claims in the EU, this situation is only an issue because the Tories and their client media want it to be an issue because decisiveness and culture wars are all they have left.
 
Boroboyyo said:
I mean , some people really have their heads in the sand on this issue .

This might not actually go ahead , but it’s not just here that’s getting sick of this issue , it’s europe too. I mean the likes of Finland and Poland are intentionally building walls to stop the flow of migrants from Belarus and Russia . Both these countries are literally weaponising migrants because they know allowing them in is going to destabilise the countries they are going to even further .

If europe doesn’t start sending these people back or start working on something that stops them getting into Europe in the first place , europe is going to go a lot more right wing . I mean for **** sake afd is doing quite well in Germany . The national front secured over 40% of the vote in the 2nd round of French elections too.Some on here will then wonder why the uk and continent is getting more right wing .
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This is a horrible, horrible post.
 
It really can’t be that difficult to discover who some of these criminals involved in the people smuggling trade are if the will to do so is there. They will likely be involved in other nefarious trades too no doubt. The Mr Big and those at the head of the gang won’t be as easy, but some within the supply line will be, surely the chain can be disrupted if not stopped.

Also, I don’t understand why we don’t or can’t make it a law that people apply at our various embassies abroad and await their decision from there and then anyone entering illegally just be deported until such time an application has been processed from the country they came from. Presumably the EU agreement would be needed mind which would be a sticking point. Surely that would have some impact on people risking life and limb in a flimsy dinghy though.
 
JonnyHistory said:
Finland and Poland wanting to limit migrations from aggressive states seems sensible given the situation in Ukraine and their relative shared geography to it. It is hardly making a case for your argument. Look at the number of Ukrainian migrants/refugees they are taking in ... literally millions!

As was said earlier on this thread we are 16th on the list for number of refugee claims in the EU, this situation is only an issue because the Tories and their client media want it to be an issue because decisiveness and culture wars are all they have left.
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The situation is a problem throughout all of Europe , not just the uk . These migrants also don’t stay in Finland and Poland , many will also try to go to Western Europe

I’ve stated in that post , that afd is polling highly in Germany and the national front in France is the highest it’s ever been . 43% I believe in the last election . It is a big topic for many countries, yet some on here cheer that something is destabilising European democracies is being allowed to continue . Italy currently also has a very right wing government too .

Labour have stated they will be tough on it because it would be political suicide to take on the views that many in this thread have .

If europe and moderate parties aren’t prepared to take some stances and enact some policies that the liberal left won’t like out of fears of being called “racist” , then people are just going to vote for parties that will . That isn’t an outcome anyone should want . Because a lot of these parties are very nationalist , and extreme nationalism can lead to war (ww2 showed that)
 
Boroboyyo said:
I mean , some people really have their heads in the sand on this issue .

This might not actually go ahead , but it’s not just here that’s getting sick of this issue , it’s europe too. I mean the likes of Finland and Poland are intentionally building walls to stop the flow of migrants from Belarus and Russia . Both these countries are literally weaponising migrants because they know allowing them in is going to destabilise the countries they are going to even further .

If europe doesn’t start sending these people back or start working on something that stops them getting into Europe in the first place , europe is going to go a lot more right wing . I mean for **** sake afd is doing quite well in Germany . The national front secured over 40% of the vote in the 2nd round of French elections too.Some on here will then wonder why the uk and continent is getting more right wing .
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The EU are already doing a lot. They allow for pushbacks, they have deals with Turkey, Libya and Morocco and spend billions on migrant deterrence.

The issue is, this isn't enough for people. With climate change the issue is only going to get worse - and the current approach of increased securitization isn't working.

www.google.com

Fortress Europe: the millions spent on military-grade tech to deter refugees

We map out the rising number of high-tech surveillance and deterrent systems facing asylum seekers along EU borders
www.google.com www.google.com
 
Boroboyyo said:
The situation is a problem throughout all of Europe , not just the uk . These migrants also don’t stay in Finland and Poland , many will also try to go to Western Europe

I’ve stated in that post , that afd is polling highly in Germany and the national front in France is the highest it’s ever been . 43% I believe in the last election . It is a big topic for many countries, yet some on here cheer that something is destabilising European democracies is being allowed to continue . Italy currently also has a very right wing government too .

Labour have stated they will be tough on it because it would be political suicide to take on the views that many in this thread have .

If europe and moderate parties aren’t prepared to take some stances and enact some policies that the liberal left won’t like out of fears of being called “racist” , then people are just going to vote for parties that will . That isn’t an outcome anyone should want . Because a lot of these parties are very nationalist , and extreme nationalism can lead to war (ww2 showed that)
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The situation is being created and stoked by the right-wing parties in Europe. The left are not blind to issues around immigration and refugees either, they just tend to create proper legislation and safe ports of entry to tackle the issue and handle it humanly. They also do not tend to use them as a way of adding political clout and stoking division. To say they shy away from the issues is plain wrong, I would suggest watching Yvette Coopers dismantling of Suella numerous times this year and the policies she has put forward to fix her mess. Labour take the issue seriously they just don't weaponize it in the same way the right are. The right are essentially profiteering political capital off the back of this crisis, demonising and weaponised it to buy votes from people who are easily swayed.

You are correct re nationalism, it is an issue, a huge one and the support of such parties ebbs and flows. We cannot allow that to dictate policy though, when the left are in power they need to continue to fix the issues in a progressive and humane way.
 
Something needs doing and fast. Reported in the news this morning that a spa hotel in Wales has been chosen to house 207 asylum seekers. The hotel owners have now made 95 members of staff redundant 😳. I'm all for helping people who need help but it's ridiculous that to do that we would badly effect another group of families.
 
Blf said:
Something needs doing and fast. Reported in the news this morning that a spa hotel in Wales has been chosen to house 207 asylum seekers. The hotel owners have now made 95 members of staff redundant 😳. I'm all for helping people who need help but it's ridiculous that to do that we would badly effect another group of families.
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Pure greed.
 
I suspect this is exactly what the government was hoping for, so they can make the case we can leave the ECHR and use this at the next election as an excuse for their failings.

What is happening across Europe and Southern USA with the migrant crisis is completely unsustainable. People are perfectly legitimate to express concerns about who is coming across on these boats without documentation and where they actually come from. It's frankly disgusting parts of the press and their knuckledraggers have framed them all as Albanian economic migrants. One recent video I came across featured a woman and her child who come across on a boat and had previously been in Eritrea, the North Korea of Africa. You'd have to have a heart made of stone not to sympathise with their desperate situation.

Labour need to do two things;

1 - Establish a new security taskforce to find these criminal gangs since the government are simply incompetent to tackle this issue.

2 - Set up a processing centre in France. Anyone who wishes to make a claim needs adequate documentation. Those who have their applications turned down and still end up in the UK, must be deported.

I'm not buying these soundbites of 'we're full', it's more of a case the government underinvested in public services and infrastructure, hence why the country is in a right state. But if we don't control the borders, and push back against these gangs, it's only a matter of time until those with far right tendencies garner electoral support.
 
Boroboyyo said:
Perhaps not Finland , but Sweden and Norway are viable options
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The North of Sweden needs migrants. There's a shortage of workers and the whole area has been steadily depopulating for decades. The Swedes may have elected a right wing government, but it doesn't alter the economic and social need for new people.
 
borolad259 said:
The North of Sweden needs migrants. There's a shortage of workers and the whole area has been steadily depopulating for decades. The Swedes may have elected a right wing government, but it doesn't alter the economic and social need for new people.
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These are supposed to be refugees though , not economic migrants
 
borolad259 said:
The North of Sweden needs migrants. There's a shortage of workers and the whole area has been steadily depopulating for decades. The Swedes may have elected a right wing government, but it doesn't alter the economic and social need for new people.
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Didn't Germany also announce something similar earlier this month?

On another note, I see the government is going to appeal the decision at the supreme court. :oops:
 
JonnyHistory said:
The situation is being created and stoked by the right-wing parties in Europe. The left are not blind to issues around immigration and refugees either, they just tend to create proper legislation and safe ports of entry to tackle the issue and handle it humanly. They also do not tend to use them as a way of adding political clout and stoking division. To say they shy away from the issues is plain wrong, I would suggest watching Yvette Coopers dismantling of Suella numerous times this year and the policies she has put forward to fix her mess. Labour take the issue seriously they just don't weaponize it in the same way the right are. The right are essentially profiteering political capital off the back of this crisis, demonising and weaponised it to buy votes from people who are easily swayed.

You are correct re nationalism, it is an issue, a huge one and the support of such parties ebbs and flows. We cannot allow that to dictate policy though, when the left are in power they need to continue to fix the issues in a progressive and humane way.
Click to expand...

The problem is the left are far too lenient on this issue too. The fact is , if someone is not escalating a literal war zone like Ukraine , Syria or Sudan , then they aren’t refugees . Being an unpleasant place to live doesn’t make you a refugee. The problem is, if they aren’t refugees then there shouldn’t be a safe port of entry to here, because if you’re allowing in people who aren’t genuine refugees then it will exasperate the issue

I agree with taking much harder stances on smugglers , as Coluka pointed out . The problem is also , some of these people are also intentionally not bringing documentation showing who they are and where they’re from . This is probably because either :

A ) they were in such a rush they couldn’t before leaving
B) they intentionally don’t want governments knowing where they have come from because it isn’t a war zone area and they also don’t want sending back
 
Norman_Conquest said:
Didn't Germany also announce something similar earlier this month?

On another note, I see the government is going to appeal the decision at the supreme court. :oops:
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In return , alternative for Germany are doing well in the polls . As I repeat again, France has nearly returned a national front government over this issue too .

If they’re worried about demographics , they need to start promoting policies that encourage people to have children . Europe really isn’t doing this .Bringing in loads of people who are from a very different culture is putting a bandage over the wider issue and is going to cause big problems on its own
 
Boroboyyo said:
The problem is the left are far too lenient on this issue too. The fact is , if someone is not escalating a literal war zone like Ukraine , Syria or Sudan , then they aren’t refugees . Being an unpleasant place to live doesn’t make you a refugee. The problem is, if they aren’t refugees then there shouldn’t be a safe port of entry to here, because if you’re allowing in people who aren’t genuine refugees then it will exasperate the issue

I agree with taking much harder stances on smugglers , as Coluka pointed out . The problem is also , some of these people are also intentionally not bringing documentation showing who they are and where they’re from . This is probably because either :

A ) they were in such a rush they couldn’t before leaving
B) they intentionally don’t want governments knowing where they have come from because it isn’t a war zone area and they also don’t want sending back
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Ukraine refugees welcome
Syrian and Sudanese refugees not welcome

I wonder why

Also wondering why Yemeni’s, Afghan’s, Nigerian et al don’t feature on your list.

I agree with some of the points made earlier,
Sunak and Braveman will love this decision

His rhetoric since the announcement is the loudest dog whistle so far.

I’m intrigued, by the way, why people who are sympathetic to refugees are labelled ‘left’.
Compassionate is a word that comes to mind.
 
Boroboyyo said:
The problem is the left are far too lenient on this issue too. The fact is , if someone is not escalating a literal war zone like Ukraine , Syria or Sudan , then they aren’t refugees . Being an unpleasant place to live doesn’t make you a refugee. The problem is, if they aren’t refugees then there shouldn’t be a safe port of entry to here, because if you’re allowing in people who aren’t genuine refugees then it will exasperate the issue

I agree with taking much harder stances on smugglers , as Coluka pointed out . The problem is also , some of these people are also intentionally not bringing documentation showing who they are and where they’re from . This is probably because either :

A ) they were in such a rush they couldn’t before leaving
B) they intentionally don’t want governments knowing where they have come from because it isn’t a war zone area and they also don’t want sending back
Click to expand...
The smuggling exists (well is exasperated) by the policy. There are no safe points of entry we used to have so more people are forced onto the boats.

I would challenge you to show evidence that Labour are "to soft", look at their record and the numbers processed etc. their policy was far more successful and often gets muddied with the introduction of freedom of movement in the EU during Blair's tenure.

Harder stances will not lead to the best outcomes, and specific examples like you have have aside more than 80% (I am not 100% certain of that figure but it is there or there about) of asylum claims are accepted. Most of these people are genuinely escaping persecution and the threat of harm and death. Why punish the genuine (and majority) of refugees because of the minority that try and game the system. You need practical solutions and that begins with proper points of entry and adequate staff for processing claims. Again, listen to Yvette Cooper in the chamber multiple times this year, Labour have a clear plan and grasp on the problems with the asylum system that the Tories have broken.
 
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