Rwanda plan unlawful!

Boroboyyo said:
The situation is a problem throughout all of Europe , not just the uk . These migrants also don’t stay in Finland and Poland , many will also try to go to Western Europe

I’ve stated in that post , that afd is polling highly in Germany and the national front in France is the highest it’s ever been . 43% I believe in the last election . It is a big topic for many countries, yet some on here cheer that something is destabilising European democracies is being allowed to continue . Italy currently also has a very right wing government too .

Labour have stated they will be tough on it because it would be political suicide to take on the views that many in this thread have .

If europe and moderate parties aren’t prepared to take some stances and enact some policies that the liberal left won’t like out of fears of being called “racist” , then people are just going to vote for parties that will . That isn’t an outcome anyone should want . Because a lot of these parties are very nationalist , and extreme nationalism can lead to war (ww2 showed that)
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Nobody is saying have an open door policy. People are annoyed with the Rwanda scheme. They are 2 different things. There is already a scheme in place to distribute refugees across Europe. We left when we left the EU, despite them not being related. It was the Dublin agreement.
 
This is it. The Braveman reply is foretaste of what’s to come in the buildup to the election.
Because this is really all they have left. So back to the same again, ramp up the rhetoric while meanwhile flogging a one horse unworkable policy to death.
It’s increasingly obvious that the boat arrivals actually suit their purposes.
Everyone must have noticed the current attack mode of, accuse your opponent of that which you are guilty. Question Time, Newsnight, Daily Politics and all radio, tv interviews. The Tory panelist will incessantly interrupt with…Labour doesn’t have a plan.
 
I think both sides make good points when you move away from the classroom bickering. It is a problem which we can’t ignore and do not have the money nor capacity to have an open door policy. The Rwanda scheme is not going to work that’s for sure and as usual I’m not clear what the labour alternative is.

For me and as stated above surely it is about stopping the gangs who are running this. Surely with a dedicated task force and co-operation you can nip some of this in the bud and bring it under control.
 
Redka said:
I think both sides make good points when you move away from the classroom bickering. It is a problem which we can’t ignore and do not have the money nor capacity to have an open door policy. The Rwanda scheme is not going to work that’s for sure and as usual I’m not clear what the labour alternative is.

For me and as stated above surely it is about stopping the gangs who are running this. Surely with a dedicated task force and co-operation you can nip some of this in the bud and bring it under control.
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They could stop the gangs if they wanted to.
If there are no gangs, there are no crossings - then what have they got left to divide us on?
 
Redka said:
I think both sides make good points when you move away from the classroom bickering. It is a problem which we can’t ignore and do not have the money nor capacity to have an open door policy. The Rwanda scheme is not going to work that’s for sure and as usual I’m not clear what the labour alternative is.

For me and as stated above surely it is about stopping the gangs who are running this. Surely with a dedicated task force and co-operation you can nip some of this in the bud and bring it under control.
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Labour's plan is to focus on stopping the smuggling gangs.

They haven't really gone into much detail about how they'll achieve this, but that's their plan.
 
Juninhoburger said:
Labour's plan is to focus on stopping the smuggling gangs.

They haven't really gone into much detail about how they'll achieve this, but that's their plan.
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They have and it starts with safe points of entry, we currently have none. If they can go to a embassy or official building and start their claim there is no need for the gangs to exist except for people looking to game the system.

The vast majority of refugee applications are accepted, those blagging it are more easily identified going through official channels.

This situation is manufactured by their policy.
 
JonnyHistory said:
They have and it starts with safe points of entry, we currently have none. If they can go to a embassy or official building and start their claim there is no need for the gangs to exist except for people looking to game the system.

The vast majority of refugee applications are accepted, those blagging it are more easily identified going through official channels.

This situation is manufactured by their policy.
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How do people get to these safe points of entry without the gangs?
 
Redka said:
How do people get to these safe points of entry without the gangs?
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One of the leaders these “gangs” was interviewed on the radio a few months ago. The interview took place in the UK. Like he said go looking in Europe for us if you like, but we’re already here.
 
Redka said:
How do people get to these safe points of entry without the gangs?
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Are you seriously suggesting refugees can only escape persecution to safe points of entry with a gang?

Nobody is claiming you can stop boat crossings or gangs entirely, that business model will always exist. But safe points of entry (which until the current administration we have generally had) is the place to start, we need proper processes instead of encouraging and enabling the gangs by making it their only option.
 
exiledinboro said:
Labour MP for Bristol West, Thangam Debbonaire can’t even say if Labour would scrap the Rwanda deal

🤞 Debbonaire losses her seat to the greens at the general election which is looking highly likely. The lefties are going to work particularly hard to get a Green MP in Bristol
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when did she say that?
 
JonnyHistory said:
Are you seriously suggesting refugees can only escape persecution to safe points of entry with a gang?

Nobody is claiming you can stop boat crossings or gangs entirely, that business model will always exist. But safe points of entry (which until the current administration we have generally had) is the place to start, we need proper processes instead of encouraging and enabling the gangs by making it their only option.
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No but I’m asking how they get their under this Labour policy?
 
exiledinboro said:
Yesterday to the BBCs Chris Mason

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7250217858276347163
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Labour are desperately trying to be the party that makes everyone happy - the lefties, the racists, the floaters, the red wall, the Tory shires. Doing everything they can to get to No. 10 without having to form a coalition.

ANYTHING they say regarding policies good or bad I'm taking with a pinch of salt, as when they do get into power they are going to get an enormous shock as to the state of the countries finances. They can promise anything now, but 18-24 months is going to be very different.

Rwanda will just be quietly forgotten about, a shiny new policy taking its place.
 
exiledinboro said:
First off it’s illegal and will never get off the ground. Pardon the pun

That’s all anyone needs to say
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Then they tie them up in knots saying ‘but what IF the appeal wins and flights start’ etc etc

I think, based on Labour’s stance on Rawanda, that they wouldn’t continue it If it did ‘get off the ground’. But we all know that it is unlikely to, so it’s really not worth the time discussing it.
 
She is in a difficult situation there, particularly if she has been given no instructions from starmer, in another interview, she makes her feelings quite clear

1688123333413.jpeg
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/labour-time-government-scrap-immoral-114323279.html
1:18
Labour: It's time government scrap immoral Rwanda plan
Yahoo News UK · ITN
1 minute, 18 seconds
22 hours ago
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/labour-time-government-scrap-immoral-114323279.html
She also makes it clear in the first clip that Labour have to unpick a fair bit of tory crap, would they want to spend time on this particular legislation that will never get off the ground? I dunno, political speak, or support for the rwanda scheme?
 
Redka said:
No but I’m asking how they get their under this Labour policy?
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Are you seriously asking me how refugees leave their home state? The same way all refugees do to safe points of entry for other states. They use any means they have! Car, feet, bus .. to suggest that is not possible without gangs is to bury ones head in the sand and ignore reality.

The Labour policy is to set up safe points of entry (I would imagine Calais being the closest) but often (as Germany did with Syrians and other humanitarian crisis they can be in other countries (Turkey for instance in this example). They can then be properly accessed and brought into the refugee system if they are genuine.

The vast majority of refugees are genuine, this is bore out in the official statistics. Refugees choose Britain for many reason, language and existing family here being the primary; which is why the mythical belief that refugees should stop in the first safe country is just not accurate. Look at North African refugees and their migrations to France for a similar example.

The backlog has been created because we closed all safe points of entry and cut staff to the bone, when a system functions correctly claims can be dealt with quickly and non-genuine refugees deported. The mechanisms for that have always existed. We are spending millions on inadequate housing because of this and these refugees cannot work as their claims are taking 3+ years to process which adds extra stress on the public purse and services.

The policy Tories have went with have encouraged gangs and they have increased in prevalence because of it. The government have made them the only option for genuine and non-genuine asylum seekers. By creating points of entry and procedures and staff to manage the flow correctly, there is less reason for people to use gangs if they are genuine which then allows us to target people trying to game the system effectively instead of tarring all refugees with same brush and treating them inhumanely.

It is not rocket science!
 
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