Russia/Ukraine

Smoggle said:
However, plenty of people dislike NATO on the left and right, some of them have a bizarre fondness for the current Russian state - usually either as a soviet hangover or an authoritarian fetish. I think they’re a mixture of ignorant, misinformed, misguided or plain daft, but not traitors
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Obviously you'll get the odd far right lunatic, but I think it's mostly old school socialists/communists. For years they looked at the Soviet Union for orders, they still have a soft spot for it. Galloway said the collapse of the Soviet Union was the 'worst day of my life'. He still behaves like he's not over it
 
streethalo said:
Obviously you'll get the odd far right lunatic, but I think it's mostly old school socialists/communists. For years they looked at the Soviet Union for orders, they still have a soft spot for it. Galloway said the collapse of the Soviet Union was the 'worst day of my life'. He still behaves like he's not over it
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I tend to agree, although I think the right has many a ‘strong man’ admirer and they like how Russia is often swift and brutal with dissenting voices. I saw plenty of this, and the soviet apologists, on twitter before I left.

I do find the whitewashing of the soviet empire baffling. Even Russians usually acknowledge many of the soviet era atrocities, even if some make allowances or excuses (similar to our own British Empire apologists). Monuments to soviet oppression can be found in Russia (often adjacent to ww2 and Lenin monuments) and many museums have sections on the Stalin years, gulag, KGB etc. They don’t deny those things and they can’t anyway after many of the archives were opened following the collapse of the USSR.

I understand people on the left criticising imperialism and empire, but to exclude the USSR from that and deny crimes its own citizens wouldn’t deny is strange.
 
Mwelolo said:
I think this is a bit of a fantasy.
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I don’t think it is. But obviously it’s just my opinion.
The US has no interest in Western Europe and seems more concerned with China.
What else can the major Western European states do to protect themselves?
 
Hap said:
I don’t think it is. But obviously it’s just my opinion.
The US has no interest in Western Europe and seems more concerned with China.
What else can the major Western European states do to protect themselves?
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The US is incredibly concerned about China, to the extent that they completely neglected Russia as a threat for years, but if they wish to remain at the top they still need allies and Western Europe would currently still fall into that category. To say they have no interest is just wrong, they have economic ties and military presence here, losing that would be catastrophic for their international influence and reputation.
 
Smoggle said:
The US is incredibly concerned about China, to the extent that they completely neglected Russia as a threat for years, but if they wish to remain at the top they still need allies and Western Europe would currently still fall into that category. To say they have no interest is just wrong, they have economic ties and military presence here, losing that would be catastrophic for their international influence and reputation.
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And of course a wider war in Europe would be damaging to the global economy, impacting the USA, although I’m sure the Americans would look for ways to monetise it for themselves as they did in we2
 
Hap said:
I don’t think it is. But obviously it’s just my opinion.
The US has no interest in Western Europe and seems more concerned with China.
What else can the major Western European states do to protect themselves?
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What is your basis for saying the US has no interest in Western Europe?
 
Mwelolo said:
What is your basis for saying the US has no interest in Western Europe?
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They’ve openly said they don’t want to get involved and seem to be looking for reasons to reduce funding in NATO, stating that European countries are not putting enough money in.

The US is very inwards looking at the moment. China hurts their economy. Europe has little impact by comparison.
 
Hap said:
They’ve openly said they don’t want to get involved and seem to be looking for reasons to reduce funding in NATO, stating that European countries are not putting enough money in.

The US is very inwards looking at the moment. China hurts their economy. Europe has little impact by comparison.
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European countries have not been putting enough money in. Few met the agreed spending target.

Why should the US prop up other countries financially?

The US is still very much the major player in NATO.
 
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Hap said:
They’ve openly said they don’t want to get involved and seem to be looking for reasons to reduce funding in NATO, stating that European countries are not putting enough money in.

The US is very inwards looking at the moment. China hurts their economy. Europe has little impact by comparison.
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They, you mean Trump.
 
Mwelolo said:
European countries have not been putting enough money in. Few met the agreed spending target.

Why should the US prop up other countries financially?
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Yes that’s exactly their point. And I agree with it/them.

If the US see a strong RF as a useful partner in a combined counter to China, they would be reluctant to see a total Russian defeat or collapse.

Problem is some countries in Europe see Russia as an existential threat. Sweden, Finland, Poland for example - countries who have invested in their military as a consequence.
 
Hap said:
Yes that’s exactly their point. And I agree with it/them.

If the US see a strong RF as a useful partner in a combined counter to China, they would be reluctant to see a total Russian defeat or collapse.

Problem is some countries in Europe see Russia as an existential threat. Sweden, Finland, Poland for example - countries who have invested in their military as a consequence.
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The us mindset is not one to partner with Russia after a century of seeing them as a massive threat
 
Hap said:
Yes that’s exactly their point. And I agree with it/them.

If the US see a strong RF as a useful partner in a combined counter to China, they would be reluctant to see a total Russian defeat or collapse.

Problem is some countries in Europe see Russia as an existential threat. Sweden, Finland, Poland for example - countries who have invested in their military as a consequence.
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I don’t buy the idea of the US seeing Russia as a future partner, personally.
 
BoroMart said:
The us mindset is not one to partner with Russia after a century of seeing them as a massive threat
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I’d like you to be right too. I don’t know.

The US will act in its own interests at any given point and us and they have already made the mistake of buddying up with Putin and his regime.

The mindset of America isn’t a single thing. Right now it’s a divided schizophrenic tide, washing in every direction. Europe is not in its focus. A divisive America is.
 
Mwelolo said:
I don’t think it would suit Trump or any other US politician to see the chaos of war in Europe.
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I agree. I imagine want a stable Europe that they understand. Which would include a dominant Russia.
 
Hap said:
I’d like you to be right too. I don’t know.

The US will act in its own interests at any given point and us and they have already made the mistake of buddying up with Putin and his regime.

The mindset of America isn’t a single thing. Right now it’s a divided schizophrenic tide, washing in every direction. Europe is not in its focus. A divisive America is.
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How have they buddied up with Putin and his regime?

They have put strong sanctions on Russia and given a fortune in weapons and financial aid to Ukraine to fight them.
 
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