Revised Plans for Boro Centre.

BlindBoyGrunt

BlindBoyGrunt

Well-known member
Ashall Projects, the company behind the two new office blocks on the perimeter of Centre Square will next week submit plans for three more blocks. With one block already planned this would take the total up to six. If I remember correctly this project was scaled back a while ago but now seems to have been resurrected. I wonder if this is on the back of renewed confidence that more business can be attracted to the area or perhaps that we are genuinely in with a shout for the Treasury relocation? Whatever the reason, it seems that the scaling back has been reversed.

Plans revealed to transform Middlesbrough town centre | Middlesbrough Council

Ashall Projects – the company behind the successful Centre Square office development – is putting forward new proposals which will dramatically transform Middlesbrough town centre. It has unveiled revised plans for three more office buildings, including one which will be seven-storeys high and...
www.middlesbrough.gov.uk www.middlesbrough.gov.uk
 
I really hope they have revised every single piece of research they have done about office demand. As they need to look at their "low ball" figure and probably half it.

Pretty much every single company that has an office has now realised they can have staff working from home, not interrupting each other and paying for their own heating and electric, and have no rates to deal with. 90% of these would have never have done this pre-pandemic, as they were stuck in the stone age, but they've been dragged out of it now.

Even if 20% go to home working permanent, it will mean we already have too many offices. In 5 years it may go down by 50%, in 20 years there might be no such thing as an office block and these buildings are probably designed on a 100 year life, its insanity.

The only reason tons of companies haven't already moved out is because they're tied into leases/ letting agreements, what do they think will happen when those agreements end?
 
It's not quite as simple as allowing employees to continue working from home. I'm told there's potential tax implications in the long term. It also makes things potentially tricky from a duty of care aspect too.

It wouldn't surprise me if offices are back at or near full capacity once the pandemic is finally a thing of the past.
 
Nero said:
It's not quite as simple as allowing employees to continue working from home. I'm told there's potential tax implications in the long term. It also makes things potentially tricky from a duty of care aspect too.

It wouldn't surprise me if offices are back at or near full capacity once the pandemic is finally a thing of the past.
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It's going to happen, it was happening before the pandemic but only with clued up companies. Thousands have had their eyes opened the last year.

The younger generations will prefer to be working from home and having the flexibility too, it's a much better work-life balance. I've worked from home for about 4 years now, it's miles better, saves me an hour of driving a day, I can organise my life miles easier, fewer distractions, get far more done.

Also, it massively cuts down on emissions from cars, as well as less demand on gas as less buildings will need heating, massive office spaces are generally not efficient anyway.

Don't get me wrong mind, governments will want their tax, as they will lose out on rates, but there would also be less to maintain, less strain on public transport, roads, trains etc. They will level it out one way or another.
 
Offices and working locations will change permanently as a result of covid. Connectivity and productivity, not presence. Offices will become collaboration spaces to be used when required, demand for flexible working will continue to rise and 5/5 office workers will become a choice rather than the norm.
 
Subbuteo_171 said:
Offices and working locations will change permanently as a result of covid. Connectivity and productivity, not presence. Offices will become collaboration spaces to be used when required, demand for flexible working will continue to rise and 5/5 office workers will become a choice rather than the norm.
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I can see more demand for shared collaborative areas and meeting rooms that can be booked out easily, at late notice, but not by the same companies all year, the same area or block could be used by 100 companies.
 
Andy_W said:
It's going to happen, it was happening before the pandemic but only with clued up companies. Thousands have had their eyes opened the last year.

The younger generations will prefer to be working from home and having the flexibility too, it's a much better work-life balance. I've worked from home for about 4 years now, it's miles better, saves me an hour of driving a day, I can organise my life miles easier, fewer distractions, get far more done.

Also, it massively cuts down on emissions from cars, as well as less demand on gas as less buildings will need heating, massive office spaces are generally not efficient anyway.

Don't get me wrong mind, governments will want their tax, as they will lose out on rates, but there would also be less to maintain, less strain on public transport, roads, trains etc. They will level it out one way or another.
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I hope it does. I'm just alluding to something a senior manager mentioned to me the other day. I work for a big company with loads of offices. I was told the company has been talking with Government for sometime. it's not as simple as letting those working at home because of COVID to continue to do so.
 
"it's not as simple as letting those working at home because of COVID to continue to do so."

Not for everyone no, but where it makes financial sense for some companies - and certainly as a model for new business, why would they not go for a distrubuted workforce where they feel it serves their needs?

I have worked at home for 12 years now and only been to an office maybe 50 times and have visited Data Centres probably 10 times that number, my son works for a US company out of New York and has only met them once in 2 years, my cousin works for a German company and has never physically met them.

These are just examples of how it's playing out - there's hundreds like me that I know of and millions more have followed in this pandemic, not all and I'd suspect only half will return to an office based system full time.

BTW, I have been asked if I'd consider a couple of days per month for major projects only - to which I've said yes.
 
I think they have filled those new offices already built and clearly have demand for more.
The empty office blocks in town are not owned by the council, are very dated and largely deliberately left to be empty because the owner has other agendas for them like student accommodation etc.
 
swordtrombonefish said:
"it's not as simple as letting those working at home because of COVID to continue to do so."

Not for everyone no, but where it makes financial sense for some companies - and certainly as a model for new business, why would they not go for a distrubuted workforce where they feel it serves their needs?

I have worked at home for 12 years now and only been to an office maybe 50 times and have visited Data Centres probably 10 times that number, my son works for a US company out of New York and has only met them once in 2 years, my cousin works for a German company and has never physically met them.

These are just examples of how it's playing out - there's hundreds like me that I know of and millions more have followed in this pandemic, not all and I'd suspect only half will return to an office based system full time.

BTW, I have been asked if I'd consider a couple of days per month for major projects only - to which I've said yes.
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If you've worked from home for 12 years you're not even in the equation.

I know people who genuinely miss the social interaction that being in an office provides. I'm fortunate as I can balance working at home with getting out to site. I know a few who are struggling being at home.

There's a massive balancing act ahead. What about the small businesses who depend on lunchtime trade from office workers? Is it tough luck to them as the world has moved on?
 
Working from home is completely and utterly ghastly in my opinion.

you never see any of your colleagues, it’s impossible to team build, communication is poor, and if you live alone like me you never see anyone to speak to all day.

I genuinely don’t understand the clamour for it. And this is from someone who lives 37 miles from his office and is saving a fortune in petrol.
I can’t wait to go back to the office
 
Aet290204 said:
Working from home is completely and utterly ghastly in my opinion.

you never see any of your colleagues, it’s impossible to team build, communication is poor, and if you live alone like me you never see anyone to speak to all day.

I genuinely don’t understand the clamour for it. And this is from someone who lives 37 miles from his office and is saving a fortune in petrol.
I can’t wait to go back to the office
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Exactly. There's so much to consider and not least the mental health of people.
 
Nero said:
Exactly. There's so much to consider and not least the mental health of people.
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Blimey I thought it was just me.

I’ve actually been prioritised by my employer to be able to go into the office for well being issues. The problem with that being if I go in, I’m likely to be sat in an office on my own, with no facilities and forced to wear a face mask. So equally grim as being sat at home alone.

i’m hoping we return to a combination of home and office working ( eg 3 days in the office 2 days at home)
 
Nero said:
If you've worked from home for 12 years you're not even in the equation.

I know people who genuinely miss the social interaction that being in an office provides. I'm fortunate as I can balance working at home with getting out to site. I know a few who are struggling being at home.

There's a massive balancing act ahead. What about the small businesses who depend on lunchtime trade from office workers? Is it tough luck to them as the world has moved on?
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The equation includes everyone and all business models, I buy food and drink from a local cafe at lunchtime (or did and hope to resume when allowed) so I do interact but not in the office 50 miles away.

For those that want the workplace social interaction, good on you and I hope it works out and you get that which you seek.
For me I have interaction with others outside of being in an office which fills that need.

In terms of the balancing act, much that we had, especially in town centres is diminished, online shopping has removed the need for bricks and mortar it seems is a preference for the public. As such many businesses that filled demand for food, drink, and passing trade have as a consequence also been hit very hard. Do I think that is a good thing? No, I enjoyed a trip into town for clothes, shoes, furnishings etc, but I think i'd become more of a rarity, a dinosaur in the modern world.

There will be adjustments all round, but as stated I do not think things will return to past levels of workplace populations - that's just my view, you are welcome to your own.
 
swordtrombonefish said:
The equation includes everyone and all business models, I buy food and drink from a local cafe at lunchtime (or did and hope to resume when allowed) so I do interact but not in the office 50 miles away.

For those that want the workplace social interaction, good on you and I hope it works out and you get that which you seek.
For me I have interaction with others outside of being in an office which fills that need.

In terms of the balancing act, much that we had, especially in town centres is diminished, online shopping has removed the need for bricks and mortar it seems is a preference for the public. As such many businesses that filled demand for food, drink, and passing trade have as a consequence also been hit very hard. Do I think that is a good thing? No, I enjoyed a trip into town for clothes, shoes, furnishings etc, but I think i'd become more of a rarity, a dinosaur in the modern world.

There will be adjustments all round, but as stated I do not think things will return to past levels of workplace populations - that's just my view, you are welcome to your own.
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You pointed out one of the secondary effects on ancilliary services - like nearby sandwich and refreshment businesses, who benefit from staff working in offices: there is a complete reappraisal of the model to which many had become used to.
 
r00fie1 said:
You pointed out one of the secondary effects on ancilliary services - like nearby sandwich and refreshment businesses, who benefit from staff working in offices: there is a complete reappraisal of the model to which many had become used to.
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I would point out that rather than going to a sandwich bar or bakery or Tesco in the town where I work. I now go to the sandwich bar or bakery or Tesco in the town I live.

I guess it’s more of a thing in big cities like London where businesses rely on commuters. Both my workplace and home are smallish rural towns.
 
Aet290204 said:
Working from home is completely and utterly ghastly in my opinion.

you never see any of your colleagues, it’s impossible to team build, communication is poor, and if you live alone like me you never see anyone to speak to all day.

I genuinely don’t understand the clamour for it. And this is from someone who lives 37 miles from his office and is saving a fortune in petrol.
I can’t wait to go back to the office
Click to expand...
For you. I've done it for 8 years and I love it. I'm on the south coast and my office is in North Shields. I'm there twice a year, the rest of the time I'm home and I don't see people that often. For me it works, and my mental health is better because I'm not constantly surrounded by people I don't like. Where home working permanently is an issue, is that you lose social skills. I've forgotten how to have a normal conversation with someone, and the silences are painful.

I think you'll see a bigger transformation to home working and collaborative office spaces than you would if Covid had never happened, but it was always going that way. As long as businesses offer people the choice of office or home, then thats up to the employee to decide whats best for them. It'll never be all or nothing because not every industry can work that way.

One thing I am keen to see is how taxation will change for employees who are home based. There is a worry that business will try and lowball staff because they don't have all these extra costs anymore, but my argument to that has always been you hire someone based on their skills, not how far their commute is. The company is already saving money by having me work from home because I use my own utilities, they don't have to buy office equipment or fit out an office.

Hell, they could even just outsource meeting spaces to a third party, you as an employee book them, and the company is charged for usage time.
 
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