Revised Plans for Boro Centre.

I think they have filled those new offices already built and clearly have demand for more.
The empty office blocks in town are not owned by the council, are very dated and largely deliberately left to be empty because the owner has other agendas for them like student accommodation etc.
@rob_fmttm

The new office blocks which were completed in 2019 was it (or earlier?) are only 85% occupied - how many of those are new jobs versus just transferring existing jobs from the town and leaving offices empty somewhere else.

What makes you say there is a clear demand for more offices?

I'd question the demand for new office space of this magnitude in Middlesbrough town centre - just about the only green open space in the town will be destroyed.

Has anyone seen the plans? How does the Town Hall and the Library fit into all this?

Building offices in the vain hope of getting the Treasury jobs (which we are never going to get) seems like madness to me.
 
@rob_fmttm

The new office blocks which were completed in 2019 was it (or earlier?) are only 85% occupied - how many of those are new jobs versus just transferring existing jobs from the town and leaving offices empty somewhere else.

What makes you say there is a clear demand for more offices?

I'd question the demand for new office space of this magnitude in Middlesbrough town centre - just about the only green open space in the town will be destroyed.

Has anyone seen the plans? How does the Town Hall and the Library fit into all this?

Building offices in the vain hope of getting the Treasury jobs (which we are never going to get) seems like madness to me.

Don't you worry about green space, there'll be plenty when the shopping centres are knocked down.
 
I expect that part of the legacy of Covid will be that everyone now sees the need to reduce overcrowding in offices. A lot of time gets wasted by seasonal illnesses and now we've learnt that you can reduce it drastically. Add to this the dismal performance of businesses and public sector where WFH has been used during Covid. Expect to see adverts that say 'no WFH in our call centre' (the new 'UK call centre')
This all creates a demand for offices.
 
I think they have filled those new offices already built and clearly have demand for more.
The empty office blocks in town are not owned by the council, are very dated and largely deliberately left to be empty because the owner has other agendas for them like student accommodation etc.

So they filled the new ones (don't even know where they are tbh?), and those in them have still been working from offices, not from home? Why have they been doing this and to what capacity, 50%?
How many of those were done on pre-covid agreements, even those that agreed on them last summer will be thinking about ditching it now, seeing as the office has been a write off for most for the past 4 months.

What about every office that is not the new ones, people move out of the old and into the new, who fills the old?

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but people need to open their eyes and look at what is coming, not look where we are now and where we were 10,20,50 years ago. The only way an area like ours can compete is to get one step ahead.

I can see more of the teaching going remote, especially for college and uni, so they may find the demand for student accommodation goes down too. The student numbers may even go down, as the birth rate is heading down.

What is going to replace the empty high street or vacant shops? Do these turn into offices or student accom too? Students can't fill everything, and every other area in the UK will have the same decline in office and shops.

There could also be less of a demand after brexit and service roles going abroad etc.

The world was going to change anyway, the faster data can move, the less people need to be huddle around data and physical paper, the pandemic is going to accelerate all this, as it cannot do the opposite.

If there was one thing I could short now, it would be office space. There's nothing signalling there will be an increase in demand, and 20 things working against it.
 
Your working environment sounds utterly grim to me. Surrounded by people you don’t like? Move on mate....
Horses for courses, but I work from home, so I'm not 'surrounded' by them. They are perfectly decent people, but by don't like, I mean I wouldn't chose to socialise with them because we are different. I don't feel cut off from work, I'm on webcams all day long on video calls for various projects. It works for me, and as another poster alluded to, its easier if you have a dedicated work environment, which I do, so I can psychologically cut myself off from the home environment.

I appreciate it doesn't work for you, as I said before, its not for everyone, thats why I think a hybrid working model will be the future, not a return to how we were, and not a free for all no office space future either.
 
So they filled the new ones (don't even know where they are tbh?), and those in them have still been working from offices, not from home? Why have they been doing this and to what capacity, 50%?
How many of those were done on pre-covid agreements, even those that agreed on them last summer will be thinking about ditching it now, seeing as the office has been a write off for most for the past 4 months.

What about every office that is not the new ones, people move out of the old and into the new, who fills the old?

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but people need to open their eyes and look at what is coming, not look where we are now and where we were 10,20,50 years ago. The only way an area like ours can compete is to get one step ahead.

I can see more of the teaching going remote, especially for college and uni, so they may find the demand for student accommodation goes down too. The student numbers may even go down, as the birth rate is heading down.

What is going to replace the empty high street or vacant shops? Do these turn into offices or student accom too? Students can't fill everything, and every other area in the UK will have the same decline in office and shops.

There could also be less of a demand after brexit and service roles going abroad etc.

The world was going to change anyway, the faster data can move, the less people need to be huddle around data and physical paper, the pandemic is going to accelerate all this, as it cannot do the opposite.

If there was one thing I could short now, it would be office space. There's nothing signalling there will be an increase in demand, and 20 things working against it.
The big worry for me with regard to commercial space is the impact it will have on pension schemes.
 
So they filled the new ones (don't even know where they are tbh?), and those in them have still been working from offices, not from home? Why have they been doing this and to what capacity, 50%?
How many of those were done on pre-covid agreements, even those that agreed on them last summer will be thinking about ditching it now, seeing as the office has been a write off for most for the past 4 months.

What about every office that is not the new ones, people move out of the old and into the new, who fills the old?

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but people need to open their eyes and look at what is coming, not look where we are now and where we were 10,20,50 years ago. The only way an area like ours can compete is to get one step ahead.

I can see more of the teaching going remote, especially for college and uni, so they may find the demand for student accommodation goes down too. The student numbers may even go down, as the birth rate is heading down.

What is going to replace the empty high street or vacant shops? Do these turn into offices or student accom too? Students can't fill everything, and every other area in the UK will have the same decline in office and shops.

There could also be less of a demand after brexit and service roles going abroad etc.

The world was going to change anyway, the faster data can move, the less people need to be huddle around data and physical paper, the pandemic is going to accelerate all this, as it cannot do the opposite.

If there was one thing I could short now, it would be office space. There's nothing signalling there will be an increase in demand, and 20 things working against it.
But seemingly they are not full - 85% occupied
 
The big worry for me with regard to commercial space is the impact it will have on pension schemes.
I would be very surprised if pensions were invested in commercial offices in the North East of England, or in any UK commercial property to be honest.
Pensions are poor ROI as they're generally very low-risk gains, but just compounding, I think. There are less risk and easier gains than UK commercial property.
 
I would be very surprised if pensions were invested in commercial offices in the North East of England, or in any UK commercial property to be honest.
Pensions are poor ROI as they're generally very low-risk gains, but just compounding, I think. There are less risk and easier gains than UK commercial property.
Depends on the plan, mine with Standard Life was proactive and got out of commercial property last year, but checking my older Nucleus SIPP, I can see that some of it is weighted quite heavily into property. Depends how on the ball the provider is.
 
Depends on the plan, mine with Standard Life was proactive and got out of commercial property last year, but checking my older Nucleus SIPP, I can see that some of it is weighted quite heavily into property. Depends how on the ball the provider is.
Good on you for looking into that, most wouldn't!

I wouldn't want barely anything in the UK markets at the minute, but I don't have a SIPP yet either, the fear of having investments time locked makes me anxious, even if they are tax-efficient. Got plenty of time left before that so I can take on more risk with the markets too.
 
Interesting article that. A lot of people don't agree with his view. Lloyds and HSBC are cutting office space. Its down to CEO opinion. The cynical side of me thinks he wants the status quo because it allows them to continue exploiting the US apprenticeships scheme.
 
Horses for courses, but I work from home, so I'm not 'surrounded' by them. They are perfectly decent people, but by don't like, I mean I wouldn't chose to socialise with them because we are different. I don't feel cut off from work, I'm on webcams all day long on video calls for various projects. It works for me, and as another poster alluded to, its easier if you have a dedicated work environment, which I do, so I can psychologically cut myself off from the home environment.

I appreciate it doesn't work for you, as I said before, its not for everyone, thats why I think a hybrid working model will be the future, not a return to how we were, and not a free for all no office space future either.
Ha! You made it sound like you were surrounded by people you hated all day....of course it’s horses for courses. I’m quite lucky in the respect that I’ve worked with some people in my office for nigh on 20yrs and we get on. Course there’s a few you don’t get on as well with but you just learn to put up with them .... 😂
 
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